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  • July 27, 2015 at 3:34 pm #80594
    strong2015
    Participant

    I’m just not sure how long to wait?

    July 27, 2015 at 3:42 pm #80595
    strong2015
    Participant

    My biggest fear is that I accept crumbs from him but I can’t decide if they’re crumbs or just not how I would show love to the person I love.

    July 27, 2015 at 4:03 pm #80597
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear strong2015:

    i don’t think these are crumbs. My impression is that he is giving you his authentic self, and how can that be crumbs? His truth is not crumbs. I noticed your user name: STRONG. In 7/26 post you used the word strong repeatedly. I wonder how you view STRONG…? How about being strong meaning that you have the strength to endure what is good enough but is not perfect?

    Maybe you are too attached to the concept of perfection and if the relaionship is not perfect, you get anxious and doubt everything about it. If this is so, no wonder he is anxious. He fears he is not good enough, and sensing your need for the relationship with him to be PERFECT (and him to be therefore perfect) makes him even more anxious than you are.

    I am getting a sense that this is a real problem, and you mentioned it yourself in page 1 of this thread (not in front of me now, being on page 2). With your need for perfection, there is no possibility for a good relationship with this man or with any other.

    It seems to me from your descriptions that your boyfriend is a decent man, truthful, open. I also think that you are putting a lot of pressure on him to be perfect and to produce a perfect relationship. An impossibility and a relathionship killer with him.

    Strong- what does it mean to be strong? To endure difficulties until things are perfect (never to happen) or to endure imperfection and make the best out of what two decent people can produce?

    Strength through imperfection… what do you think, strong2015?

    anita

    July 27, 2015 at 4:36 pm #80600
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear strong2015:

    Here are your quotes: “But while I feel good about all these things I don’t feel like everything is ok now. I wonder why I expect everything to suddenly be perfect.” While you feel GOOD, you don’t feel EVERYTHING is okay. i see the need for perfection here, for everything, every single thing to be okay? I am very familiar with that need, for everything to be okay. If only that was possible. And you wrote “why I expect everythngt to suddenly be perfect?” Probably the more anxious you are, the more you need everything to be perfect.

    ou wrote: “I’ve told myself I can’t control his fears…” Isn’t it your fears that need your attention? Your strenth at this point, it seems to me, is in sharing with him YOUR fears. Sharing with him your fears, your need for perfection, a need fueled by your fear.

    You wrote: “That the strength of our relationship now seems to be a strong friendship and a desire and a respect for making each other happy…” The strenth of yur relationship is in sharing each other’s fears, each other’s vulnerability. Bad idea to make yourself the strong one, the good one and him the weak one, the bad one. I know you wrote before that you believe everyone has shades of grey, but this may not be the message you do convey to him. In your anxiety and your need for perfection, you may be making yourself the “strong” one, waiting for him to get strong, to catch up to you, while in reality you are BOTH scared. You are both weak and strong. If each one of you, in the context of the relationship, own your own strength and your own weakness in communication with each other, you can make magic and this relationship can be more glorious than you can imagine. Not perfect, but unbelievably wonderful.

    You wrote: ” it feels both positive and negative, positive because I’m in a stronger place so probably more ready to be in a relationship but concerned that we may not have everything we need to have the relationship I desire.” Here it is again: “concerned that we may not have EVERYTHING we need.

    You asked: “Anita, you seemed to understand where he was coming from. Do you think my fears a fair?” At this very moment I am confused about what fears you are referring to?

    Dear strong2015: nothing will ever be perfect. everything will not be okay. Something will be not okay at any one time. I personally have a lot of experience with OCD, my own. I know the need for perfection and I know the distress about something not being okay. You don’t have to have a full blown OCD to have this kind of anxiety (almost everything is on a continuum). I am doing my best to live with imperfection, with everything not being okay. You have a good man there. Open up to him about your fears, about your weakness- and with his help you will get stronger. By sharing each other’s weakness, each others fears, you will both get stronger. Own your fears with him. I don’t mean the kind of fears that if he did this or that those fears will calm down for a while (big pressure on him, not fair), but the fears you had before you met him, those fears that are triggered in the relationship with him, but fears that are yours, up to you to deal with, not up to him.

    anita
    .

    July 27, 2015 at 3:15 pm#80592 | QuoteReply | Report

    strong2015

    Participant

    I didn’t hear from him yesterday after trying to call him, so no contact beyond seeing each other in the morning. It’s just a small action but I wonder if he says he wants us but can’t actually put that into action. Not sure what I can do but keep living my life. But I wonder why though? He seemed so content with us on the weekend, so open but the walls have gone back. My friends say I have to look at his actions not his words. It’s hard.

    July 27, 2015 at 8:39 pm #80617
    strong2015
    Participant

    Anita you have given me so much, thank you. It was strange re-reading my words and seeing how I was expressing myself. You have allowed me to see that though I have never consciously thought this way I am positioning myself as the good one and him as week. He was so brave in sharing so much of himself with me and beyond saying what I want from the relationship I haven’t done the same and I need to.

    In terms of language strong, I think it comes from when my previous long-term relationship broke down I was when i had completely lost my confidence, I was struggling to find work, I felt weak and helpless and in this state my partner of 10 years broke up with me. With my current boyfriend when we were living overseas together both of us had a lot of pressure from work we didn’t cope well with and again I felt like I lost myself, my happiness, I felt weak and that’s when he cheated. So I do have this association with when I feel weak, negative things happen. So I have had this focus on being strong, believing in myself and abilities. I don’t think by itself that is a negative thing as I know I can’t rely on someone else for my happiness but I also have to be willing to be vulnerable. I suppose when you asked me what I meant by my fears, my biggest fear is being weak and what will happen.

    You have made me recognise everything will never be ok, but that is ok. I might have to keep reminding myself of that one. But when I talked about crumbs it was more that I do want a partner in life, a buddy to share my life with, to build a life with and I don’t feel like I have that. It feels like he compartmentalises me to the weekend, where we do spend quality time together and then have the odd phone chat during the week but it feels like smaller than I’d like and I hate how I sounds saying this but a txt or a phone call each day doesn’t seem that much to do for someone you love. So rightly or wrongly this is the imperfection I’m struggling with.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by strong2015.
    August 2, 2015 at 9:21 pm #81107
    strong2015
    Participant

    So I took your advice and shared my fears within him, not about us both myself and hating feeling weak etc.We came back to talking about our relationship and moving in together. He had given it alot more thought and was so open with me about his fears. He says he see me as the greatest thing that’s happened to him and he feels like it’s a bigger decision he’s making. That if he says no to me he’s saying no the only chance he’ll have at being a father, being in a real relationship, that no would mean he’d live an isolated life, in the vacuum. So in his heart he wants to say yes but he doesn’t know if he can live up to it. I said it all about intention, wanting to try, we can’t predict things but he’s worried he won’t meet my expectation of being present (he feels like he’s a zombie during the week), being open – (he closes things off when he’s stressed) and making his work less of a priority. He’s very insightful these are all my worry points but also torn about him feeling like he has to change. I did ask him whether he was happy for work to be his priority because if he was he shouldn’t change but his response was that it’s the only way he knows so he’s worried he won’t beable to change that habit. He isn’t sure what to do. I told him I didn’t want to pressure him but found it helpful to talk to someone so he’s going to talk to his mum this week about it. I’m not sure what to think. I know he cares and values me and I wonder if talking about what could be a solution that works for both of us on the above ie. openess, presence, priorities. I also believe that I’m not his only chance at a relationship, maybe there is someone that is more suited to him than me. I want him to be happy even if that means it’s not with me. I welcome any thoughts, I really hated seeing him so worried and torn.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by strong2015.
    August 3, 2015 at 12:40 am #81110
    strong2015
    Participant

    I’m starting to feel really sad about us, it feels like because we care and love each other so much we can’t say goodbyge but for whatever reason we can’t move forward either.

    August 3, 2015 at 8:49 am #81118
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear strong2015:

    I read your latest posts just now. First thought in my mind is about him talking with his mother. I am projecting my own experience, of course, but there is a chance for some accuracy in it: I wonder if it is a good idea at all that he talks to his mother, of all people. Whatever their relationship has been when he was growing up, it must have been very meaningful and the result of it is not very impressive, as far as his mental health and confidence, as far as the challenges he is facing now in relationship with you. His problems with zoning out, fear of his functioning in a relationship with you, a relationship he says he is VERY interested in, all this indicates to me that his mother was not good-enough. Not even close. So I have a bad feeling about him talking to… her. She may be the last person he should be talking to.

    The other thing on my mind is the word STRONG. You are afraid of being weak because it was when you were weak that you were betrayed and abandoned by two significant men in your life. As you already know, there is no such thing as strength without weakness, just as there is no such thing as positive without negative, light without dark etc. So there is weakness in you, vulnerability that cannot be eliminated, only embraced by strength.

    Third thing on my mind is again, my feel that your boyfriend is honest with you, very honest and how precious that is. Indeed you are not getting the crumbs. You are getting who he really is at this point in his life and in relationship with you.

    Fourth (why am I counting, do not know…) – it seems to me that you are moving between being okay with the relationship ending at some point and your attachment to him. You are feeling stuck in indecision, perhaps, conflicted. You want progress and feel it is not happening. But you made progress with this very conversation you had, don’t you feel that way. Only need to have more and more conversations. Not a one time thing. Talk to him about your conflict, anything and everything, the way it is. As long as you communicate with him honestly and respectfully, taking responsibility for your thoughts, your feelings, then anything goes. Communicate with him MORE honestly… and kindly, as calmly as you can.

    Whatever decision you eventually make, let it be through ONGOING talks with him. Inject more honesty, encourage his, keep going. This is valuable practice whether this relationship ends in marriage-and-children or not.

    He said that he is worried that he has to change so to make a closer relationship work. This is a good point, a very important point. Change HOW? I would want to know more about that. What is he interested, motivated in changing and what is it he wants you to accept AS IS. I would say this is an excellent question to explore way more. For you and for him. What are you, Strong, willing to accept about him and what is it that you need him to change? Same question for him. Wouldn’t it be a great idea (???) If you two listed those things/ answer these questions in writing/ typing separately, alone, individually and then share your papers, your answers. You may want to refine the question/s. This type of exercise is done in couple counseling. What do you think?

    anita

    August 3, 2015 at 4:06 pm #81152
    strong2015
    Participant

    Thanks Anita. I was feeling overwhelmed and sad, sad because I do love him so much but it was feeling hopeless but you were right this is the most honest relationship I’ve ever had and I haven’t appreciated that. In terms of his mum I did suggest he spoke to a counselour but he was weary of this as the last person he went to see told him not to tell me about the affair, that it was his burden and he had to deal with it, to man up. Advice he now wishes he didn’t follow. I’m not sure if I can now suggest that he doesn’t talk to his mum but I do share your concerns, I’m not sure what she will say or how she’ll react but she is a person he trusts. I do want to keep the dialogue open and I really like the way you phrased exploring more about how it needs to change for it to work for both of us. He is going overseas today but I think I’ll write him an email so my words can come out straight. Thanks again

    August 3, 2015 at 6:58 pm #81158
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear strong2015:

    You are welcome. I do hope it works out. Either there will be progress and a sort of an amazing evolution of your relationship, and of you and him as individuals in the relationship, over time, or not. Try to not be desperate about it because patience is required and an ability to be clear headed to see what is there instead of what is wished for. I … wish there is a way for you to find the strength in you and surround your weakness, loneliness, despair with that strength. And somehow do that tonight, tomorrow, connecting with others, supportive others… and alone… Post here more if it is helpful to you!
    anita

    August 4, 2015 at 10:18 pm #81250
    strong2015
    Participant

    Thanks Anita, your words did calm me. I did email him and told him many of my fears, how much I appreciated his honesty and how I wanted to keep on exploring with him what a balance could be that would offer us both security without suffocation and freedom without isolation. It’s been silence at his end so far. He is still overseas but I have to confess my heart sinks. On one hand I know I have extended the conversation in a positive way, my words were kind and not judging and were honest. I have exposed myself to him, been completely honest who I am and the journey I want to keep on exploring with him. There is nothing more I can do. The impulsive me wants an answer, feels foolish like may I just don’t want to hear what he’s saying. He isn’t sure if he can meet my needs, if he has more to give. Shouldn’t he know? If I was the right girl for him, would he beable to commit? As you can see my is doing a few loops, I’m not really sure how to stop or give myself peace from it. Patience isn’t my forte.

    August 5, 2015 at 7:12 am #81260
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dearn strong2015:

    You wrote to me before that he told you that in between the times you meet he zones out? So no surprise to me that he didn’t answer your email. Not at all surprised, expected it really. (Why do we keep getting surprised at the expectable… my thought)

    In the context of my interaction with you here on this website, I have no investment in you keeping your relationship with him. My investment is in encouraging you (and being humbly aware of the very little affect or effect I can have on another!) to heal or otherwise grow or evolve into a more content person, have peace of mind through seeing what is there and seeing more and more.

    You asked “Shouldn’t he know? If I was the right girl for him, would he be able to commit?” Shouldn’t you, strong, know? I don’t mean it as a real question. My answer is: in a perfect world he would know and you would know. In the real world the best you can do is heal and evolve and see more and more so you know more and more over time, being curious more than desperate, patient more than impulsive.

    I used to think that others have the answers, that they know better. Your bf probably does not know any better than you do. Not about matters of the heart/ emotion. Emotions cofuse people. He doesn’t like the confusion so he zones out and focuses on what is not confusing- the things he attends to right now (instead of replying to your email that is confusing to him, confusing because the topic is, not your particular email).

    You can write the perfect email but if it is about a topic he has an emotional problem with- well, he will prefer dealing with something where he does not have to experience conflict.

    And he may never, not in the next year or two or ten, no matter how patiently you can wait and encourage him, he may not attend to this conflict in him any more than he already did. This may be it for him, what he already shared with you. What you can do is observe him, observe to see- as objectively as you can- if he is MOTIVATED to further examine his conflict, that is to engage in unpleasant emotions so to … heal and evolve himself-

    Or is he likely to continue to distract himself, zone out- if this is his pattern.

    anita

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