Home→Forums→Share Your Truth→being surrounded with bitter people and lonliness
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December 13, 2022 at 8:47 am #411788farnazParticipant
dear Anita
i hope that wasn`t too much for you
December 13, 2022 at 8:48 am #411789AnonymousGuestNo, Farnaz, it isn’t at all too much for me. I’ve been working on a reply since first thing this morning, still working (maybe slower than usual because I am still sick). I will submit a reply soon.
anita
December 13, 2022 at 9:19 am #411792AnonymousGuestDear Farnaz:
A medical doctor: I always had the outmost respect for the profession! I failed entrance exams to a medical school and I am glad that I did because my chronic severe inattention to details would have gotten a patient killed if I was a practicing doctor and I don’t know if I could have lived with- or want to live with such guilt.
“Forcing the women in family to wear scarf… limiting socializing outside“- Only the Jewish orthodox women cover their heads (the Ashkenazi orthodox women shave their heads.. so to not be attractive to men).
“there is an old saying in my pop culture, the man can have all kinds of fun with any women he wants, but ultimately he marries a virgin, as you guess that doesn’t apply to women“- I grew up with this saying, this very mentality!
“I was curious about your nationality… because of all animosity between Iran and Israel or what they want us to be, I think there are more similarities between Islam and your religion than with Christianity“- I was afraid that you will not want to speak to me anymore because of the animosity you mentioned.
Oh my goodness, you speak French and I understood part of what you typed (I spoke simple French before I was 6, then continued to hear conversational French spoken a lot and understood, but it’s been a long time since): you wrote- and correct me where I am wrong- that you speak French a little too, that it’s been a long time since you spoke French, and you forgot a lot, plus it is very difficult to type in French because of (keyboard difficulties).
“some relationships are doomed from the beginning , the way they started, I mean.. I’m gonna share my experience with the guy, I’m glad you asked but honestly, I fear you judge me“- I didn’t read the story yet (I read part of your post, reply, then read the next, etc., it feels like having a real-life conversation this way!)), but I promise, I will not judge you!… Please go on…
“I was working in a heart hospital for a short time.. as a gp under supervision of the residents… One of those were a guy who was tall, handsome and smart, apparently he scored highest in board exam, even better than those residents with more years of education. He was really nasty to me, but I could say he was checking me out whenever he had a chance… after a while we got along , he changed his attitude completely and in one or 2 occasions , we were both awake through the night talking and laughing , because we were both on duty, I happened to like this guy, he seemed to be genuinely interested in me, he was asking about my likes and dislikes and I asked him too, and we had a lot to talk about, but after both nights before the morning meeting when I was gathering the result of new tests, he was completely changed, he ignored me completely, that was weird... Four months after, I accidently met him in another hospital, we were talking and he had to go, so he said he is going to message me. No message after 3 months. My dad got sick… I called him… he called me dear, azizam in our language… he asked… would you come over to my place to have s##, I refused, I told him before that’s not my style, he was persistent and pushy and I said I want to see you in public place before, he was like, but we know each other.. he was very annoyed… he convinced me to have a s^^ video chat with him and he got satisfied, and he hung up immediately, after a while, a few days I contacted him, he said he is not available, he had a repair man in his flat to fix the washing machine, yessss he wanted me at his home, and I was pissed…and he didn`t care to message me, i was so pissed, heart less, it was like he wanted me to hurt more… just let me know how do you think about this guy?”
– since I have the.. (non) privilege of growing up with this mentality and coming across these men many times, I can easily and confidently explain it: when you talked to him during those two nights (the boldfaced above), when sex was not a possibility for him, being that he was working and he didn’t want to be caught having sex in the workplace- you got a glimpse of who he is as a person, and the two of you were two people having an honest exchange. Easy to fall in love with that person, so you’d think that this decent human connection can continue.. you want it to continue, excited about it perhaps… that’s on your side.
On his side, as a man, he is able to compartmentalize so well.. His ability to compartmentalize would be admirable, if you threw the ethics out of it: he can genuinely be this honest, decent person and in an instant, he places this part of him away and he is genuinely… not concerned about any of it. You can think of this compartmentalizing as dissociation. He can dissociate from the human in him- when it comes to women- in an instant.
During those two nights he was a person. Afterwards, he was (to put it bluntly, because I have no other way to make it clear) a penis that needs stimulation and satisfaction. He is able to do this compartmentalization because he grew up- and adopted- the mentality that women are sub-humans, and it is therefore ethically and morally okay to see them as sexual objects and nothing more, with an added complexity: it is okay to see women as sub-human IF they succumb to the man’s pressure to have sex, or choose to have sex otherwise. (If she resists all pressures and is a virgin at the wedding night, then she is elevated to.. an upper category, not one that is equal to men’s but a superior one to the sexual object category).
Within this mentality, some.. “nice” men will wine-and-dine a woman with the expectation of having sex, but many men, particularly if they are considered attractive and desirable, and if they are busy (like the man you described), and/ or they don’t want to spend the money, for the sake of convenience and expediency, will forgo the wining-and-dining part.
The man you described had no problems ignoring you after he got satisfied because… well, it is not different from a hungry man having had a full meal, ignoring an offer for second meal right away. Not that you offered him a second meal, but in his mind, this is WHAT you are, a meal to be had when hungry. Of course, for the considered-attractive men, there are plenty of meals offered, so when hungry, they feed on what is available right there and then.
This mentality and these kinds of men ruined a lot for me… disgusting, and it is a human-woman tragedy on a global scale.
anita
December 13, 2022 at 9:19 am #411793farnazParticipantthank you , i `m relieved and get better soon xoxo
December 13, 2022 at 9:23 am #411794AnonymousGuestThank you, Farnaz. You and I submitted posts at exactly the same time, please see my post above.
anita
December 13, 2022 at 11:09 am #411803farnazParticipantoh sorry
the net is stopping every 30 seconds
December 13, 2022 at 12:16 pm #411806farnazParticipantdear Anita
A medical doctor: I always had the outmost respect for the profession! I failed entrance exams to a medical school and I am glad that I did because my chronic severe inattention to details …thank you very much , i can
t really comment on that. i wasn
t really focused either but i had too , after a while i got more organized and focused , but its a very hard thing to do , all the sleepless nights , specially during covid . i lost my will to live for a while and i start to take antidepressants . i like it but i know a lot of people who regret studying medicine so i hope your happy with the job you have right now that
s all that matters .I was afraid that you will not want to speak to me anymore because of the animosity you mentioned. yes i understand it . i think if i didn
t know Israeli people while studying maybe i had some doubts talking to you just like if you didn
t meet iranians while growing up you would think they are some evil creatures but it`s all bs , dirty politicsyes , i speak french and i forgot alot too . and you understood my phrase right , lol
i always enjoy you accurate analysis , all were unfortunately true thinking of women as subhuman and compartmentalization . he never took the initiation that was the first red flag and he acting nasty and aloof was actually stabilizing his situation as the upper one , when it didn
t work he changed somehow but don
t you find his behavior heartless ? i think i shouldnt expect such a person to care but in the same time why not ?it wouldn
t hurt him to say something regarding my dads death . i don
t want seem foolish and naive for expecting it but i believe this people are evil . i didnt say the last part , i actually contacted him one last time and offered to have sex with him , i know that was crazy and i didn
t intend to do it just wanted to him to react , remember i just lost my dad , he said no just leave me alone , i feel like in that point because i nagged about his behavior the day he came back , he thought im not that easy target and/or he believed i
m in vulnerable position and would do anything to get him back ,the latter one has higher possibility in my opinion . after he said leave me alone , it was what i was waiting for , i said but why how can i find an sleezy d^^^ like you anywhere else?and i said by the way my dad is passed but i know you cant relate because you don
t know your dad because your mom was a w^^^^ . do i regret that ?NO . i believe that was low and petty and it was the first time i used that word in someones face . but if someone deserves to be talked to like that , it was him , he is low and shameless , i
m honestly scared to hear your opinion about what i did ?but in that moment it felt right and after 9 months i dont feel it any different , so maybe i
m shameless too . lol. “nice” men will wine-and-dine a woman with the expectation of having sex, but many men, particularly if they are considered attractive and desirable, and if they are busy (like the man you described), and/ or they don’t want to spend the money, he didn
t have the money to spent or desire to do so , one he could have anybody he likes without spending any money , in his head . and from what i heard afterwards he was from a very low class family with no money at all , he was driving nice car and wear nice clothes but that was it and when he told me in what part of city he was living i was shocked , it wasn
t what i expected from an arrogant and prideful person like him who is going to be cardiologist at all, i hope i dont sound superficial , i mean some people give some aura you that it would be a privilege to be with them even breathing same air as them and it is more disappointing when you realized it
s all facade , he had no character and no money and he had some serious health issues , im saying it
s his fault but if a woman had the same issues , that would be very differentThis mentality and these kinds of men ruined a lot for me… disgusting, and it is a human-woman tragedy on a global scale. their mentality and the mentality of women who pursue them , so sad
Farnaz
December 13, 2022 at 1:31 pm #411807AnonymousGuestDear Farnaz:
“It’s all be, dirty politics“- us vs them, we the superior and justified on one side, and the others, inferior and blameworthy, on the other side: a primitive mentality, as old as humanity itself.
“you understood my phrase right, lol“- thank you. I just googled “lol” in French, Quora says the closest would be MDR (mourir de rire).
“Don’t you find his behavior heartless?“- yes, absolutely heartless.
“I believe these people are evil“- he was evil with you. I am guessing that he sensed that you will not go belly up and submit to his dominance, so he got angry. discontented.
“I actually contacted him one last time and offered to have sex with him.. I didn’t intend to do it, just wanted for him to react… he said no, just leave me alone… he thought I’m not that easy of a target“- this is what I thought: he figured that you are not a weak, submissive woman. I am guessing his life has been so difficult, that he didn’t have the time, energy, or MOTIVATION to examine his views about women and to explore such values as True Love, Equality, and Empathy.
“And/ or he believed I’m in vulnerable position and would do anything to get him back, the latter one has higher possibility in my opinion“- It sounds to me that he was simply tired, that he thought it would be too much trouble to deal with you, being the independent thinker and gutsy woman that you are.
“After he said leave me alone, it was what I was waiting for, I said, but why how can I find an sleezy d^^^ like you anywhere else?“- I smiled as I read this. I then asked myself: should I share it that I smiled, here on this public forum? And I answered: hey, I am not the morality police (hoping that I just made a good joke..?).
“you don’t know your dad because your mom was a w^^^^… Do I regret that? NO. I believe that was low and petty and it was the first time I used that word in someone’s face, but if someone deserves to be talked like that, it was him“- his behavior in regard to you really was heartless. How dare he be this.. heatless, it makes me feel angry at him!
“I’m honestly scared to hear your opinion about what I did? But in that moment it felt right…“- no judgment here (just like I promised): the whole thing with him was unfortunate. I wish you didn’t have that experience!
“He didn’t have the money to spend or desire to do so… he was from a very low class family, with no money at all, he was driving nice car and wore nice clothes… it wasn’t what I expected from an arrogant and prideful person like him, who is going to be a cardiologist“-
– a heartless heart doctor.. hmm. It seems like he had a tough life and he was not into the finest things in life. By finest things in life, I am not referring to a nice car and nice clothes, but to such things as True love, Respect, Empathy, Decency, etc.
“He had no character and no money and he had some serious health issues“- no fine values= no character. If he had money, it wouldn’t have made his character finer though… His health issues are probably a part of why he didn’t bother with the finer things in life, he was too tired, too burdened with life.
“if a woman had the same issues , that would be very different.. their mentality and the mentality of women who pursue them, so sad“- if by the latter, you refer to women who accommodate men’s attitude of superiority and privilege, so to have an advantage over women who don’t.. I agree!
anita
December 13, 2022 at 5:00 pm #411809AnonymousGuestDear Farnaz:
Talking about men and the dehumanization of women in Iran and elsewhere, it crossed my mind earlier that you need (if you do) only one good man who does not dehumanize women and is into what I mentioned in my post above: true love, respect, decency, empathy. Fast forward a few hours, and I just noticed on my newsfeed the following: “‘Iranian footballer sentenced to execution for ‘campaigning for women’s rights’: Professional footballer Amir Nasr-Azadani is reportedly facing execution in Iran for ‘campaigning for women’s rights and basic freedom in his country'”-
– is this man one of the good men I was thinking about earlier.. and this is his end?
anita
December 13, 2022 at 10:36 pm #411812farnazParticipantdear Anita
thank you for your compassion , i`m gonna answer to you in few hours ,
take care
December 14, 2022 at 7:22 am #411814AnonymousGuestYou are welcome, Farnaz, thank you for the note and take care of yourself!
anita
December 14, 2022 at 9:58 am #411824farnazParticipantdear Anita
i hope you are better now
i read your message , as usual it was accurate , unfortunately i had a long day , i could reply now but i
ve rather put more thoughts on my reply , i
m gonna reply to you tomorrow . take care of your selffarnaz
December 14, 2022 at 10:25 am #411828AnonymousGuestDear Farnaz:
It is Wed 10:25 am here, Wed 9:55 pm where you are at, 11.5 hours ahead. I am feeling better today, but not well enough, thank you. I hope that you have a restful night and .. see you in the morning.
anita
December 14, 2022 at 10:34 am #411829farnazParticipantdear Anita
THank you very much , i`m glad you feel better
see you in morning
far
December 14, 2022 at 10:44 am #411830AnonymousGuestDear Farnaz: you are welcome. Reading your last message made me smile for the first time in a few days (as far as I remember now). It makes me feel good to think of you as my friend.
anita
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