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March 29, 2018 at 11:38 am #199987AnonymousInactive
“And so, you end up with a man like Tom. Better but.. not good.” are you suggesting I’m going to end up with him after all, meaning “stuck with him”.
March 29, 2018 at 12:54 pm #200005AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
To see what I learned so far from communicating with you, all you have to do is re-read what I wrote to you so far. Every time I articulated something to you, it was a result of new thinking, often a new way of looking at something, a deeper way. It is all over the thread. The fact that your mother and my mother have so much in common makes it more of a learning experience for me.
By ending up with Tom I meant that through the thread there was no other man but him who you communicated with, the only one you wrote about in the present tense, the one you expressed feelings for and about, and the one you had physical relations with. I didn’t mean that I think he will turn into a loving, committed man for you. I have no reason to think that is likely to happen.
If you didn’t live with your mother, if you healed from the shame she inflicted on you and still does, free from the guilt she inflicted on you and still does, then you will think differently, feel differently and behave differently. Your life would be different and an unloving, selfish man will have no part in it.
*Will be back in about fifteen hours.
anita
March 29, 2018 at 1:42 pm #200015AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
So you’re saying she is the main reason for struggling and the best would be to never talk or meet, not only limit the contact.
March 30, 2018 at 3:52 am #200039AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
Yes, this is what I am saying.
She inflicted so much damage on you that staying for more of the same-old-same-old doesn’t make sense.
As it is, your mother owns your life.
You are still waiting for her to tell you what is and what isn’t. For example, on some level of knowing, you know that she yelled at you repeatedly in the past when you were doing homework. On a deeper level of knowing, you don’t know it because she said later on conflicting things about her behavior when you were doing homework. So… you don’t know on a deeper level what really happened until… she tells you clearly.
So you operate in the dark, knowing the truth on a superficial level (that dry, academic like knowing), but not on an emotional/ believing-it level. You are stuck in not-really-knowing.
What are your plans: to stay in the flat owned by your mother where she lives sometimes? To live there until your grandparents die and then, with your mother permission (since she has some ownership rights) move to the house where they live?
You have a part time job teaching, making very little money. Any employment plans?
Regarding men: any goals regarding being in a loving relationship?
Ever wanted to move far away from your mother, ever tried to..?
anita
March 30, 2018 at 11:13 am #200135AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
Thank you for asking those specific questions about my plans.
“you don’t know on a deeper level what really happened until… she tells you clearly … you operate in the dark, knowing the truth on a superficial level (that dry, academic like knowing), but not on an emotional/ believing-it level. You are stuck in not-really-knowing.” I think now I know what you mean by that. Although I’m trying to see and be aware more of what she did to me, without her acknowledging or confirming. Do you think so? or do you think I still don’t fully see that and don’t fully believe it? For past months I’ve been reading a lot and talking to a friend, also talking to you. I think I see more, although being in contact with her doesn’t help. What do you think.
I kept asking you about your mother sometimes, I just want to apologize if you were sometimes not comfortable with that. One reason was obviously to get to know you better, the other one my thoughts about similarity. I was wondering what is it that made you so sure despite the fact my life has been similar to yours in this particular case, that also it is the exact same root of suffering in life and there is only one solution.
My plans are finding a better job since may or June, now I have this commitment to teaching till the end of June. That won’t allow me to move out, but I would have more money.
The house in the village, Her option is to sell the half of land there and build a new small house. which would also belong to her, even though I got this after my dad. I don’t want that. In her opinion she would built this house for me to live there, so that I would have a flat in the city and a house in the village, but this flat is not my home, I live in her flat. So in the house I know it would be the same as here, even though my dad gave it to me but it doesn’t feel mine either. I could sell it and buy my own place, or have a small house there, my own, but she won’t let me make decision, and if I do she will never agree for me to do anything separate from her and have my own plans. I’m scared I will have to fight with her. I don’t even know how to do that. This is my hope but I don’t know how.
I had some plans to sell the half of it and buy a cheaper flat in smaller city. I could afford it, I checked prices of flats in a town 30 kilometres from here. It’s calmer, not that noisy, I would feel better there. Living here is expensive, it’s one of the biggest cities. In small city it would be easier.
Regarding men, I thought about that. I think about what we talk here almost all the time. I’m getting used to these conclusions. Also I’m trying to distance myself after what happened last weeks. It’s not easy, it’s on my mind every second. Also when he called ,he behaved like we are seeing each other again. When I miss him and have the urge to text him I try to remember it’s not real that I need him or that it’s just a feeling that he will save me, not a fact. Sometimes it works. I realized what you wrote earlier that he’s the only man, I’ve ever talked about here, although I’ve been on couple of dates with one guy, very decent and nice. I know everything you told me here, but it’s the hardest part. I wouldn’t hesitate to move out from my mother forever, even tomorrow. But he’s the worst for me to let go.
March 30, 2018 at 11:48 am #200141AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
Questions:
1. Are you able to sell your half of the house in the village now, before both of your grandparents die? Do you need your mother’s permission to sell that half and is she unwilling?
2. Will you be able to buy a flat in the smaller city after you sell your half of the house in the village? Is selling your half of the house in the village the only way for you to move to the smaller city?
3. Are you motivated to stay in the flat where you are because Tom lives nearby?
anita
March 30, 2018 at 12:39 pm #200147AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
I can’t do it, because they live there and I won’t throw them out. They also have the right to live in one room till they die (the house is 200m2). I would be able to buy a flat, but it would take more than a half so she would have to agree to it, and she wouldn’t be left with much money, certainly not to build a house. So she would have to be that kind to let me do what I want to. Buying a flat is the only way for me to move to smaller city, renting is expensive and it’s pointless spending money every month. It’s better to own one. I told her this, first she thought I was talking about selling this flat and she would also move to smaller city, and asked what about a house, what about a flat here, I said I don’t care, I would like my own place, and this city O. seems nice. She said we can sell everything and buy a flat for me if I want to. And she would stay here. I think she felt hurt by that. So there. ..
I talked to him about moving to O. when was here to get his things in February. He said it’s a very bad idea. That there are cheaper flats here too, away from the centre of the city, like his brother has bought, besides what about the job, it’s too far and generally no. He said I didn’t think it over and I rush, and told me not to do it. He works in an office on the same street where I live, 500 meters away from my flat. No, I wasn’t motivated to stay here because of that. Now when you asked, when thinking about it, that would mean we would never meet ( in current situation: he wouldn’t be able to come by for an hour after work to have sex, so yes that’s a tough decision for me, a lot to lose). Yes that makes me think, I admit, but I don’t think that would be enough reason to stay if had the real chance to move out.
March 30, 2018 at 12:58 pm #200157AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I am trying to understand your practical situation, hence my inquiry.
Did I understand correctly: no point in renting, only buying. To buy a place, you and your mother will be connected financially. Wherever you live, therefore, she will either live with you, or very close to you?
You wrote: “in current situation: he (Tom) wouldn’t be able to come by for an hour after work to have sex, so yes that’s a tough decision for me, a lot to lose”-
Does he regularly or repeatedly come by to your place after work for an hour of sex (I know only of the one time recently).
And to make sure I understand, you believe that you will have “a lot to lose” if he doesn’t visit you for sex after work for an hour or so?
* Back in about fifteen hours.
anita
March 30, 2018 at 1:59 pm #200167AnonymousInactiveNot exactly. To buy a place, I would have to sell my dad’s house or a land in the village. We are planning to sell a half of the land (I think it’s called “lot”) this year, not house yet, and she said I can buy a flat for those money it I want to. She would have to agree to it because she partially owns it, so it’s her money too. She is willing to agree, from what she said today and earlier when we talked. I could buy my own new flat in a smaller city, she would stay in her flat (the one I live in now). So I have this option of moving out maybe this or next year. I hope this sounds clear, sorry if I sound confusing sometimes.
No, that was irony, that it’s “a lot to lose”.. He was here only this one time, but when he called two days ago, he told me he wants to meet soon. I assume he wants to keep seeing me regularly because he enjoys it. Moving out means not seeing him ever again, and that’s tough, but it’s not a reason for me to stay here. I will move out, if I have the chance.
March 31, 2018 at 4:09 am #200215AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
You started this post five and a half months ago, October 15, 2017.
Has anything in your actual life circumstances change since Oct (employment, living arrangement, “toxic ‘relation”, as you termed it then, with Tom, other relationships)?
Do you now have any new or renewed goals that you didn’t have in Oct 2017, any new or renewed hopes for your life, any dreams or goals, something to look forward to, something to aim for?
anita
March 31, 2018 at 8:08 am #200269AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
You’re challenging me with those questions. But that’s okay, thank you for that, it’s motivating. What has changed since then..When my mother yelled at me couple of months ago I was quiet and cried in my room, almost always harmed my face, couldn’t function normally until her mood improved and she “liked me” again. Now when she yells, I say aloud to her that she has issues and it’s not my fault, and I won’t tolerate that. (She denies it but now I KNOW I’m right ). I also am sure I want to live alone, which I couldn’t imagine earlier, also earlier she wouldn’t let me make that decision. I talked to her on the phone today and told her I want my own flat, and she again said it’s okay if I want to take those money and buy it. She didn’t mention the fact or the reason I would want to live separate from her, all she mentioned was a cat, she said “But I won’t see him, I will miss him”. She didn’t even say anything about not seeing me, I think she is perfectly aware why I want to move out, and that’s because of her. (The same as in situation with apologizing for doing homework, she is aware what she does to me. Anyway that’s a surprise)
My current job would allow me to pay bills (I started working in language school , more hours) but I want to look for something better anyways in may.
Goals or dreams: I would like to have my own place, and live my own life, and be forgiving to myself which I believe would stop or limit my self harming habits. I want to try.
March 31, 2018 at 8:34 am #200279AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
Your new assertiveness with your mother reads good to me, so are your goals of living away from her, living your own life and being forgiving to yourself. I like your goals.
anita
March 31, 2018 at 1:21 pm #200341AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
Thank you, that means a lot, your opinion. This is what I’m really sure of. I was sad today, most of the time I seem like a person with lots of energy, I like to laugh and sing, and do things, sometimes I do this even if I don’t feel well because I prefer to be cheerful. One person once told me: ‘how about if you would always remain cheerful no matter what?’ I know it’s not always impossible but I often remember this and try. But sometimes all the energy goes away. I was sad because after everything I’ve been through in my life as a child I still can’t find peace and I have to fight and run away from her. But maybe I feel pity for myself, it’s just a feeling, I don’t like it when such thoughts come to me.
How are you lately? Do your negative feelings and thoughts return recently? Has anything good happened that you noticed in your progress in recent weeks?
April 1, 2018 at 3:54 am #200363AnonymousInactiveWe talked again yesterday and it was so confusing. He wanted to come by because he was alone at home. I told him I want to. But then he said something rude and I got angry.. I couldn’t sleep until morning. I remember Christmas a year and a half ago. I felt the same. Fear of losing him, it never goes away. Regardless if you tell me he’s a bad person, whether I believe it or not. I’m thinking psychotherapy. But I went couple of times and it didn’t work out. I feel so desperate, I’ve been trying so hard to get better, trying, analyzing, understanding.and this feeling still doesn’t go away. I remember taking Xanax in times when I couldn’t stand my own thoughts. I took it everynight for months sometimes. It took months of my life but I didn’t feel this pain, and didn’t think. I felt relief. I’m thinking this is my only chance to not feel it, because I sometimes wish I died and ended this. Taking medications in the only alternative to being dead when it comes to not thinking and not being aware. I’m tired of being trapped, being this person. I often think it’s a rational solution to this suffering, Anita I think I don’t have enough strength to overcome this pain. I have this Xanax left from three years ago, it’s expired. I’m afraid but I’m desperate and exhausted after last weeks, and everything what happened, thinking about this day when he was there, what he said, and what he said yesterday, and this dreadful thought of losing him. I’m thinking working on myself is pointless, I will never win. I couldn’t get out of bed today, can’t stand those thoughts in my head, thinking I should have let him come here.
April 1, 2018 at 5:31 am #200373AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
Looking at your two recent posts, the first was quite cheerful, positive. The second-desperate. The difference is 14 hours or so and a conversation with that Tom, in between the posts. Quite clear evidence that this toxic “relation” (your term) is unhealthy and damaging to you.
Problem is, in the past, when you did not have contact with him for a few months, at some point on, you felt even worse, your anxiety increased.
In your most recent post you considered death once again, as a solution to your emotional pain.
How about another solution: packing a small backpack and leaving the city where you live, maybe leaving the country where you live, away from Tom, away from your mother. Going elsewhere. This is a less extreme solution than death, isn’t it?
Wouldn’t it be nice to give yourself the opportunity to be the one choosing where you go, where you live, who you interact with, and no longer submitting yourself to abuse?
A lifetime of abuse: abuse by your mother, abuse by Tom, staying put for more abuse, away and returning for more abuse. Is it a wonder you feel as badly as you do.
Worth repeating: wouldn’t it be nice if you give yourself the opportunity to no longer submit yourself to any abuse, not by your mother, not by this man, not by anyone?
More abuse will not heal the consequences of past abuse. No abuse is the beginning of healing.
anita
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