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March 20, 2018 at 12:37 pm #198437
AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
She’s a friend, we’re close and she knows about my issues, but not about him. What you told me “I cannot provide you with the relief you need so desperately” – well it’s not completely true. I remember first time I had a panic attack months ago, when I first started writing here, I told you “I feel like I am in a trap” (because of this job I accepted which was a bad idea, and other things) you told me “You are not in a trap. there may be consequences to leave but no one will put you behind bars. You are not in a trap”. I think about this statement very often. This gave me some relief at that time, and helps me sometimes a bit. A bit is a lot, it’s something.
His name is Tom. Okay, I guess I needed to be told that this cant be changed and maybe it isn’t only my fault that we had this kind of relation. I used to analyze every moment together to see when and what did I do that he started treating me that way. Perhaps I did a lot but I guess he wanted this very much too.
Dear Bill
Thank you for saying I am a good person. Thanks for saying this “Would you talk to anyone else the way you talk to yourself? Think about that for a moment. All the good you see in others is in you too.” That’s very kind and accurate, so simple yet so smart. Thank you for this. The pain so overwhelming sometimes it feels never-ending and like a trap, but those simple words give a bit of hope. I wish you to more and more success at overcoming your anxiety and self esteem issues. Being here and working on yourself is very important. Yes that’s true, Anita is a friend, an ally, although those words don’t even describe how much safer I feel when I know she is somewhere and cares.
March 20, 2018 at 1:00 pm #198445AnonymousInactive*
March 20, 2018 at 6:00 pm #198481
BillParticipantThanks Joanna! I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know it’s not easy, but you have many friends here who care for you.
March 21, 2018 at 8:08 am #198601AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
What you wrote, your last sentence in the recent post, means a lot to me.
It so happens you stated the key to healing in your recent post: “This gave me some relief at that time, and helps me sometimes a bit. A bit is a lot, it’s something”, and “Those simple words give a bit of hope”.
To heal, to persist in the long process of healing, it is necessary, at one point onward, to be okay with that bit, that little something sometimes. It is a bit by bit process, a bit of realization here, a relief, a calm… then the distress is back, then a bit of a realization there, a bit more understanding, then we forget.. and a bit more later.
When people rush, expecting a bit of a relief to expand immediately into a happiness-ever-after existence, that expectation derails a person from the process of healing.
Regarding Tom, if you want (I don’t know if it is a good, bad or neutral idea), share about him/ the relationship more. Maybe there is something there to see better.
anita
March 21, 2018 at 10:30 am #198641AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
Well, you helped me many times but surprisingly with not just being and caring, but with not “beating me”, not judging or being outraged with what I do or did, and and rather saying rational things like “you’re not in a trap.” Very often I keep repeating this to myself, never occurred to me earlier. (Although I sometimes really feel like I am, but there are days it helps).
I believe you when you say that there is a small progress and then it comes back, and then there is another small progress, no need to beat myself up when it comes back again. So it’s fine I felt worse recently. My face is healed and I am happy about it, I enjoyed looking in the mirror today morning when I saw it didn’t leave any scar.
I could share more, sure, but I wouldn’t know what would be good to share here.
March 21, 2018 at 10:37 am #198645AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
Thank you for your expressed appreciation. I appreciate you too!
In “I wouldn’t know what would be good to share here”- what do you mean?
anita
March 21, 2018 at 11:38 am #198679AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
Sorry if my English is confusing sometimes. I’m not sure what you would like know, or what would be useful to know. Maybe as you suggested we are both damaged, me and him, I know him long time now and I can see that there is something he needs, even though he is in a relationship and he has everything now. I saw that when he came here to take those things a couple of weeks ago, and he took my hand, and texted me his was hoping something would happen. It was a bit desperate, I swear I didn’t give him any reasons or hope that day. Even later when I was a bit afraid to talk to him, he encouraged me so much. I wouldn’t be that daring to think that it’s me that he wants or misses so much, I guess it’s something else that causes this. Someone else would say “stop” long ago, after this whole ‘relationship’ we had.
March 21, 2018 at 12:32 pm #198685AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I think your English is fine. I ask people what they mean when their English is better than mine. I ask because I don’t know.
Regarding Tom, you wrote that the two of you are damaged. Okay, I accept that as true. I ask you: is any one of you not only damaged, but also damaging the other?
Probably every single individual out there who is damaging is also damaged. Not every individual who is damaged is also damaging.
If a person was to be excused for damaging because he or she is damaged, then all prisoners must be freed, all criminals not guilty, all cruelties dismissed.
Back to Tom…?
* Will be away from the computer for about sixteen hours.
anita
March 21, 2018 at 12:49 pm #198691AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
I understand. Are you saying that I am hurting him as well.
March 22, 2018 at 12:01 am #198745
SelenaParticipant(*TRIGGER WARNING!*)
I do not know what to feel anymore, I feel mostly numb. Every time I start to feel happy, I realize how pointless my life is. The older I get the more I realize I cannot handle being a adult, and that is hard for me to face. I cannot even go into work without having a panic attack or having suicidal thoughts. I am terrified of being fired. The sad thing is, my work is the only things I have. I still have the horror of living with the awful monster who abused me when I was younger, and nobody still cares. I had stopped taking my Zoloft because I had just given up.
I read that when you stop taking your Zoloft, you have the possibility of dying. And then I thought, maybe that would be better If I do just die… I really feel as though I cannot handle being a adult, and I also cannot handle the bad things life throws at me. I am already broken and beaten enough by my life. I have found a terrible fear of leaving my house even though my home is a personal hell everyday. I do not know anymore how to be happy, and I feel a constant sadness bloom over me everyday. I have started to bring a blade with me everywhere, as it is my only means to feel something. I feel like when I have the blade, I have something to help me. I honestly don’t even know if I have any time left in me to continue…
March 22, 2018 at 3:58 am #198757AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
In case you are confused about the post above, the member posting it started her own thread with the same post, so it seems like it was posted on your thread as well by mistake.
As to your question, I thought about him damaging you, but after being away from the computer, walking, I thought: Joanna might think I meant that she was damaging him (because of your core belief).
And then I was considering it: is it possible that he is damaging you and you are damaging him?
Considering it, I know he already let you know that he has a girlfriend and that he is not interested in you as a girlfriend. Let’s say the following is true: he contacts you when he wants to have sex with you. When you agree, he comes over to your place for that purpose, the deed is done, he leaves and does not contact you until the next time, weeks or months later, when he suggests coming over to your place for the same purpose.
Let’s say, these are the things he doesn’t do: call you for any other purpose, ask you about your thoughts and feelings about him and the interactions with him, wanting to know what you think, feel and want otherwise; ask you about the details of your life; go out with you in public, movies, restaurants, walks, events and such; share with you his thoughts and feelings (other than wanting sex), suggest further contact at the end of a meeting, such as saying “I will call you tomorrow”. When you call him or text him, he does not answer, or answers coldly, not in a welcoming way, unless he called you first and you are returning his call.
Is this the case, if not, correct my description. How long has this situation with him gone on?
And, what do you want from him? What do you believe that he wants from you?
anita
March 22, 2018 at 5:05 am #198765AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
What he specifically asked me was if it wouldn’t bother me that he has a girlfriend and we would still meet. Yes, that description you wrote is true. I asked if he wants to stay longer and order some food or watch a movie, he obviously couldn’t and didn’t want to. I knew he would say no, but it was painful that I don’t have this “privilege” anymore to do those things with him.
I am aware of everything you wrote and how it looks. It looks exactly how it is in reality. so I guess I’ll just answer you questions. What do I want: I want to have him as much as I can, because I feel safe knowing he is around. I started hoping maybe they’ll break up. What does he want.. He looks for excitement and something new from what he has at home. Also as he said he has this weakness for me. I think he will call or text me again, he told me he will have some time during easter. I don’t think he regrets doing it or plans to never do it again.
March 22, 2018 at 5:27 am #198769AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
You wrote that my description is true. Your motivation, you shared, is to have him in your presence as much as possible because you feel safe when he is present with you.
His motivation, you agreed, is to have sex with you.
You are hoping that in the future he will spend more time with you, maybe if he breaks up with his girlfriend, he will, you are hoping.
Before he had a girlfriend, did he spend enough time with you, enough to your satisfaction, that is? If not, how long have you been wanting that he spend more time with you and he hasn’t (how many months/ years)?
anita
March 22, 2018 at 11:35 am #198829AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I re-read your Oct 15- Feb 3 posts and I understand better the relationship with Tom. I realize that you don’t see him the way he is because you desperately need him to be a good, loving man. You need him to be that, so you make believe that he is that, and that if only you make him see that you are worthy of his love, than he will love you.
You don’t see that he doesn’t love you because he is not a loving man. You believe he doesn’t love you because you didn’t show him yet, you didn’t prove to him yet, that you are worthy of his love. So you keep trying to show him, to prove to him.
This pattern originated in your experience with your parents. Your mother was the aggressive one, your father was passive. Neither one was good and loving. Your hope for love was with your father because he was not aggressive, not like your mother.
You made believe that he is a good, loving man because you needed to feel safe with at least one of your parents. There is nothing stronger than a child’s need to feel safe. A child will make believe anything to bring about this feeling of safety.
You still live with your mother, at thirty or so. You are an adult but you didn’t heal from the aggression you experienced with your mother, aggression that you can’t heal from because it is still directed at you. Your father is no longer alive, and if he was, love wouldn’t be in a relationship with him because it was not there before.
So there is Tom, and the hope is with him. Only it is based on a made-believe, a delusion, a false belief.
You wrote about Tom: “He lied to me, cheated, didn’t even promise he wouldn’t… He ignored me for weeks and didn’t respect me… he told me things that still haunt me.. that.. I don’t even deserve to break up with because we were never a couple.”- but you still believe he is a good, loving man.
Dec 8, you wrote: “I failed to make him love me… I can’t forgive myself I couldn’t make him love me… why can’t I be the person he wants. Maybe some detail I’d say or do would change how he feels about me”-
You don’t realize he is not a loving man. You believe he is not loving you yet because you didn’t show him yet that he should love you, that you are worthy of his love.
When you spend time with him you believe that you have another opportunity to show him that you deserve his love. As you try, you feel hope and you feel safe. When he is gone and doesn’t contact you, you despair, feeling that you failed yet again. Your anxiety increases. Then he contacts you and you feel hope again, maybe this time…
You wrote: “Whenever he was around I felt like everything would be fine now, and nothing else mattered… he will take all the pain away… that he will fix everything again… the fact that we’ll see each other again brings hope, however illogical”. This quote is equally true to your experience with your father and with Tom.
You wrote about Tom Feb 4: “I know he’s like my father whom I missed through all my life. I don’t hate my father or judge him.. I understand him and I know he was a good person and loved me… When my parents divorced and I visited him I had this feeling that all the issues I had back home, they didn’t matter since I was at my dad’s. … he made me feel safe.. I lived in a fairytale for a week or two.”
When you feel safe with Tom it is indeed a fairytale. You are not safe with Tom, it only feels safe. Your father was not a good, loving person, and neither is Tom. You made believe your father was a good, loving man and you make believe the same about Tom.
You wrote: “I know this man, my ex-not-boyfriend (Tom) reminds me of him (your father) in many many ways… after talking to him I often have a feeling it’s gonna be okay… He often says the right things… I know it’s mostly my idea of him, that I want him to have those features.. because I miss this feeling. So when I notice there was something I could use to make him stay, I did this, and in return for making me feel safe (or fooling myself) I allowed him to hurt me as well”-
You said it yourself, it is your idea of him, not who he is. You want him to have those features, being a good, loving man, but he doesn’t. He is not a good, loving man. You wrote that you are fooling yourself, meaning you know at times that you are not safe with Tom, you only feel safe.
You wrote about Tom: “He told me he does not love her (his girlfriend)… in general he never thought he loved anyone in his whole life“- he is not a loving man (he was a loving boy, I have no doubt, but lost it along the way).
You wrote: “he never thought he loved anyone in his whole life. That made me think it’s not me who is unlovable”-
True, it is not you who is unlovable. He is not a loving man.
You are seeing him the way he is, at times, but when anxious, you need him so badly to be a good, loving man that you make believe, again, that he is those things.
When we make believe, when we don’t see reality for what it is, we suffer.
Your real hope, your real life safety is about seeing what is true to reality. The comfort you experience with Tom is temporary and brings you much suffering, because it is based on fantasy, on make believe.
Hope to read from you soon.
anita
March 22, 2018 at 1:55 pm #198867AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
Sorry If I won’t relate to everything you wrote, but I always read it couple of times. You’re right with everything. Thank you for the effort you put in all this. Thank you.
I always believed my father loved me, despite how he didn’t show it. I remember several things: once when he drove to my grandmas where I was staying, when I was 12. Second when he called me on my phone when I was 16. (But to be honest I now am not sure if he really called me or I just thought about this so many times and hoped he would call that I made this up, believed it and don’t know anymore if it really happened), another thing when I last saw him in 2005, 8 months before he died, he told me “come by sometimes, It’s sad living here alone” these words haunted me for years, because there was this one time my dad wanted me and I missed this chance, because I never went there again. How could I miss it, I had this one big chance when my father once had this fleeting thought that would like me to visit, how my life would be different if I came there again, we would be such a loving family, him and I, for the rest of our lives if I accepted his generous offer (that’s irony. But this is what I believed for last years, maybe not believed because it’s obviously stupid, but rather felt and had guilt about it). You’re right, he didn’t love me.That would be the best and final explanation to everything he ever did or didn’t do. I wanted to convince myself you have to love your own child, yes, it is possible you can’t show it or you were raised this way and you can’t show emotions, but you have to, it is natural to love your child so he has to love me, because of the fact I’m his child, he has to, that’s the “law” of nature, right? You can’t not love your child. Isn’t this true? But you’re right Anita, this made me cry what you wrote but at the same time a bit of relief and I felt that I shifted a little bit more my own blame to him.
Back to T, I know he is not a loving man. When he told me he doesn’t love his girlfriend, Okay it felt like a nice surprise at first but the fact that this relationship means so little to him that he gave me permission to destroy it.. Well I know he won’t break up with her but he cheated and he will have to live with this, I can’t understand why he thought it was even worth it. I feel guilty about this, I had so many doubts, you know I cancelled this two times and refused when he wanted to meet. Even when he was here, I was scared when his phone rang. It didn’t excite me at all, it scared me, the fact that this girl exists. He never had any doubts, not even once. I opened the door and he kissed me, just like she didn’t exist. If he would say ‘stop’ or ‘slow down’ once, at any moment for the past few weeks, including that meeting, I would stop. Anyway, I don’t enjoy being the one he cheated with on his girlfriend. I know that’s not the beginning of a love story, rather beginning of the end. I want you to know, I’m not explaining myself. Funny she has everything I ever dreamed of and it turns out she has a man who doesn’t love her and cheats. That’s what I wanted so badly, to have what she has. This fantasy, this ‘make believe’ you told me about.
Today I wanted to block him, on social media and my phone. It’s not like I don’t have strength to do it, I would but I know he would email me sooner or later or whatever way he would find to text me. And he would joke about it, and I would let it go again. I once already ‘broke up’ with him and we started talking again, and I felt this regret that I should have stayed. I now know I shouldn’t have because a month later he found a girlfriend so I guess it’s good I ended this at that time, I avoided the situation when he would have to tell me to take my things and leave. But after I did this, I had those obsessive thoughts, I almost went crazy, they haunted me from the moment I woke up to the moment I fell asleep.. Every day, every night. I couldn’t stand it. Ruminating, analyzing, obsessing. Like a crowd of people pointing out at me 24/7 and blaming me, reminding me of every moment I did wrong, shouting at me. I can do it, but I’m afraid of those thoughts, those panic attacks, those voices, this guilt. Do you understand? I can block him but I’m scared of my reaction.
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