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anxiety, health and being hurt

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  • #197961
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    In what I re-read you mentioned repeatedly that you feel trapped.

    You wrote: “I understand he is a bad person, but I can’t forgive myself I couldn’t make him love me, I keep analyzing … I could have been different… I always want to punish myself, why am I like that, why I can’t be the person he wants.”

    MyĀ  understanding at this (advanced) point: you believe that this man is a good person and that you are a bad person. This is why you are not angry at him and instead, you are angry at yourself.

    When interacting with him you suffer because he mistreats you. When away from him you suffer because you believe it was your fault that he mistreated you, because you are the bad person who is failing to make a good person love her… and you want to try again.

    The trap in regard to him is just that: with him you suffer, away from him you suffer. Repeat.

    What keeps you trapped is your core belief, that you are a bad person, that any mistreatment of you is an indication that you are a bad person.

    And so, everyone who mistreats you gets a jail free card, access to you and even invitations by you to mistreat you again. The one who doesn’t get a jail free card is you, therefore you are indeed trapped.

    anita

    #197965
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    To your question on the other page: no, I don’t have this feeling anymore, that I was alone feeling this pain, that no one felt or feelsĀ  such pain but me, the way I felt it. I use the past tense because the pain is way, way… way less intense than it used to be. (It used to be intense, overwhelming, exhausting for decades, having led me to a dysfunctional life).

    Thing is I felt my pain but believed my mother was the one who was hurting. I wasn’t able to separate myself from her. I am now separate from her, mentally that is.

    anita

     

     

    #197983
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Abbey,

    Thank you for the kind words, that means a lot when someone says it and also knows what I feel.

    Dear Anita,

    What you wrote opened my eyes a lot. Thank you for that. I indeed don’t think he is a bad person. Ā I mean I *know* it because I know the social standards for treating people, what’s good and what’s bad but I don’t blame him for treating me that way, and I indeed encourage him to hurt me. Even though I sometimes let him know he hurts me, but then I show him that it’s perfectly fine and I allow to do it again, because.. it’s not like I think I deserve it, it’s more like: it’s fine, you hurt me, I hurt myself too, I hate myself for self harming and it hurts when I do it myself too but I HAVE TO do it and it gives me relief because I need to punish myself constantly. So with pleasure and relief I accept the fact that you support me with all this (self)harming, and I encourage you to do this because I need this. I can’t live without it.

    #197985
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    The last sentence: “I can’t live without it”, I am not clear about what “it” means.

    anita

     

    #197987
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita

    “It” I meant hurting myself, because I do it all my life, at least since I was 6 or 7, when I was 12 almost everyday to this day.

    #197997
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    I understand. If you want to challenge this core belief, that you are a bad person and therefore deserving to be hurt (by you and by others), let me know. We discussed here anxiety and so forth. Underneath all your distress and dysfunction in life is this core belief.

    There is an exercise in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, of taking a core belief to court, so to speak. There you prepare an argument for the core belief (in defense of keeping it) and an argument against it (prosecuting it). Eventually you judge the core belief as true or not true.

    If you want, you can prepare such arguments for and against, defend and prosecute, and post it here. I will be back to the computer in about sixteen hours.

    * You are a good person, joanna. I believe it. I hope that you believe it too, one day soon.

    anita

     

    #198005
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita,

    Thank you for saying I’m a good person. I am always amazed when someone says that. And I don’t mean compliments, just opinion or assumption, that someone would think that.

    Yes I would like to challenge that belief but honestly I wouldn’t have any idea for arguments against it. Two years ago I Ā wrote on a piece of paper all the bad things about me, I don’t know why I did this, I just sat and wrote all bad things people used to tell me through all my life, all things people bullied me about, complained about me, mocked me, blamed me. There was a whole page of it. I threw this paper out, but I remember then I wanted to write the good things and there were like 3 or 4 lines. Ā I couldn’t recall any and IĀ couldn’t think of any.

    Sure I would like to prepare such thing you proposed. Just wouldn’t Ā know what to think of.

    #198111
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    I used to feel amazed at the thought of me being a good person, not that the thought occurred to me much. I remember now, on this website a few people suggested I was a good person, that felt like a new idea, something not considered before. Reading such comments did not lead me to consider such. An alien idea, it was. I believed I was a bad person.

    I was wondering yesterday while on a walk, if, when interacting with this man, as in during the last visit, if you did whatever it is that you did (I do not need or want details) because you wanted to please him. I wondered if it pleased him and has pleased him during the years, that you presented yourself to him as less worthy, as someone deserving of mistreatment.. if that made him feel good.

    What do you think?

    Will refer back to the exercise later, remind me if you want.

    anita

     

    #198149
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita

    Yes, “new idea, something not considered before”, when someone says I am good person or he likes me for the kind of person I am I always want to ask “Really? Like what exactly? Did I say something that you like? tell me more why did you think that” and also “Is it temporary that you think that or was it just a thought?”.

    Yes I wanted to please him, or rather to not disappoint him. I always get this feeling. As for your question, yes he is the kind of person who wants to be superior to women. As from what he said about his ex girlfriend she was the one who care more, loved more and always apologizing, she also went out of her way to please him. I would say my ‘relationship’ with him when we were dating wasn’t much different from what he has with other women. As for last meeting, When he was leaving I asked him “now what” and he said “I have to go” and was just staring at me. I know he felt a bit weird, maybe because we used to spend days and nights together and now he just left me like this. I think he did feel bad about it. (not justifying him, I know he would figure something out to stay, he just didn’t want to)

    #198169
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    Well, you and I are good people. How about that…

    You wanted/ want, when you see him, to not disappoint him, that is to meet his expectation to act inferior to him, to allow him that feeling of superiority he likes to entertain. A lot of people do that, I have done it, allow another to enjoy their superiority, perceived superiority, that is. Lots of people are pleased with that, with having people please them that way.

    It doesn’t serve him well, doesn’t serve you well. Can you imagine, that what is really good for him is for a woman to not act inferior? Can you imagine that is just what he needs?

    A shame he may never find it out, not for as long as there are women willing to please him this way.

    anita

     

    #198187
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita

    You’re probably right, as much as it shocked me what you just wrote. I remember when we started seeing each other I was acting different and he tried so much to get me, I didn’t want to sleep with him for couple of months, he used to come to my house in the middle of the night, was sad when I ignored his texts, or didn’t have time for him.He used to bring me flowers and buy candles for the night because I joked I wanted this. That was also the last time he ever mentioned us being together in a serious relationship or things like holding my hand etc. He tried really hard to get me (I was in love with someone else at that time so I ignored him for a long time). The time I agreed to sleep with him changed all this, and it never came back the way it was before.

    So I believe it’s true, this is what he really needs. I think about it very often, I was happy then, it wasn’t sick relationship like it is now. But is it possible to come back to this? I’m not saying to us being together like it was before, but come back to when I felt worthy and not inferior around him.

    You’ve done it, so did you finally stop wanting this? I’m not asking if you realized it’s bad, because its not that difficult to know and to see, but do you still feel this need for someone to make you feel less worthy?

     

    #198195
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    I will be back in about fifteen hours, or less, will read and reply to you then. Please take good care of yourself.

    anita

    #198265
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dear Anita

    Thank you very much for being kind to me, for not telling me to stop hurting myself. I am really surprised you never tell me, even in a gentle way, to at least *try* to stop doing this. My mother used to tell me when I was in high school and had acne (as a result of picking and scratching my skin) Ā “what do you have on this face again”, “what did you do again to this face”she once read chocolate caused acne and there it started “you have something on your face again, did you eat chocolate again” “I told you to not eat those foods, why did you ” etc. She was so angry at me I caused it and looked bad. She was angry at me for looking bad. If I could “try” to not do this I would definitely do.

    I feel so bad, I keep having those terrible nightmares. I barely sleep lately. Ā That means a lot that you care about me. Maybe I’ll try to leave my face alone since today, my friend came for couple of days.

     

    #198283
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear joanna:

    I just read your last two posts. Your friend is visiting you for a couple of days? I don’t know which friend it is but I hope you are having a good time with that friend.

    Of course I wouldn’t tell you to not do what ends up hurting you. I know that you do what you do so to find relief from emotional pain and at first you find that relief, at least some of the times. I cannot provide you with the relief you need soĀ  desperately, when you do, right there and then, therefore I understand that you seek that relief in the ways that are available to you.

    I understand only too well how emotional pain feels, how it feels to be desperate for relief. Not that I recommend hurting oneself for the purpose of the initial, temporary relief. Of course not, but I understand and experienced the urge, the great need to… feel better.

    In regard to your question about pleasing another by acting inferior to them.. no, I do not do that anymore, oh no. I acted inferior before because I believed that I was. Well, I am not. I am not inferior to anyone.

    Regarding the man (I don’t think you mentioned his name, or a made-up name for him), you asked if there is a way to change the dynamic that has been established, the inferior/superior dynamic- I doubt it because it already has been established. If he was motivated to change and was involved in intense psychotherapy, and if he approached you and told you that he wants to change himself and the dynamic and develop a healthy, loving relationship where the two of you are equal-in-value partners, then maybe, a good chance, excellent chance with hard work.

    But without these things, no, I don’t think so.

    anita

    #198299
    Bill
    Participant

    Hi Joanna,

     

    I just finished reading through your posts and I want to start off by saying – without a doubt you are a good person. All you want are good things. Good things for yourself and good things for other people. That’s what good people do!

     

    If you don’t mind me offering my ā€œ2 centsā€ here – maybe it would be a good thing if you were not in a relationship right now? The reason I say this is because what you are really looking for is inside you. It’s not going to be found outside of who you are, so you certainly will not find it in another person. Take some time to get to know yourself, and appreciate all the good things about you. Trust me when I say this – there are many good things about you. I can tell. You are passionate, caring, empathetic and obviously very intelligent. People can meet the person of their dreams and still be unhappy if they are unhappy with themselves.

     

    I struggle with anxiety and low self-esteem myself. I’m not saying I have figured it out but I am happily a work-in-progress. I think it starts by feeling worthy. Worthy of all the good things that come your way. Worthy of self-love and self-appreciation. It takes time to change this kind of thinking because we accept it as ā€œThat’s the way it isā€, so we fail to see it for what it really is – a misconception about ourselves. I think by being easier on ourselves and having some patience we can learn new habits and change that inner dialogue. It doesn’t happen overnight, and I don’t think it’s supposed to. So when we are trying to change a belief that voice may immediately pipe in and say something like ā€œThis isn’t going to work. We’ve tried this before and we are just not smart enough. Just quit now!ā€ We, without knowing it, listen to that voice. Would you talk to anyone else the way you talk to yourself? Think about that for a moment. All the good you see in others is in you too.

     

    Please know I’m not saying this to make you feel better or to be nice. I say this because it’s true. Don’t get discouraged. The path to feeling better is not perfect. But we are not looking for perfection, we want balance. So if you have a few good days, followed by a bad one that’s okay. There will be bad days. Bad days are part of life, and they are not always our fault. Also, they are not punishment because we are bad people. It sounds like the guy who was in your life may be in a similar situation. I’m sure he’s not a bad person, but based on what I’ve read he too may be having some issues with self-worth, hence why he’s treated you the way he has. The way he’s treating you has nothing to do with you, as it does with how he feels about himself. But it’s not up to you to ā€˜save’ him. Only he can do that.

     

    After reading through your posts it’s very apparent that you have one more thing to be grateful for – Anita! The advice and compassion she has given you over the last few months is truly a gift. I feel like I watched a friendship start and grow right in front of me as I read through your exchanges!

     

    Again, Joanna – you are a good person and you are worthy of a wonderful life.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 1 month ago by Bill.
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