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November 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm #44960DanielleParticipant
I can’t believe I am here again, but the past times I’ve turned here for guidance, it’s helped me beyond belief. You guys really know your stuff!
I’ve written two times before, both about the same person. This is a friend who I care deeply for, and someone I spend 90% of my time with. For all intensive purposes, we are essentially dating, and to take it a step further, he’s basically my boyfriend. But because neither of us have mustered up the courage to open our hearts fully and make that declaration, so we’ve just basically been confusing, messy, friends riding a wild emotional rollercoaster for almost 2 years.Through thick and thin.
Because I know my fear of vulnerability, my inability to get over being cheated on in the past (I’m working on it!) and all of my insecurities, I’ve never really pushed for any kind of commitment. I go with the flow to a fault, leaving the other person unable to read my intentions. This is not done purposely, and I am not trying to play games- I just simply cannot force myself to open up. Despite this, I find myself doing more with him than I’ve ever done in the past, even with “labeled” boyfriends. I think of him often, and I want to make him happy. I’ve never been a cuddly girl, but I am with him. I rub his back, I rub his feet (I HATE feet!) and enjoy catering to him. I realized months ago that I was in love with him. I realized a couple of months ago, he felt the same.
It seems simple, but it’s not. For each of my insecurities, he’s got triple. He craves attention, and him being in a band, it’s simple for him to get the attention from less than classy ladies who love the appeal of a band guy. He’s been burned in the past, leaving him uneasy about relationships, claiming things go south 3 months after becoming official. He’s not disrespectful, but I sometimes sense a bit of chauvinism, mainly when we argue. He swallows his emotions, says things he doesn’t mean and is a real “man” about feelings. He fancies himself a “man’s man” but the people who know him well see he’s a sensitive boy.
In the past, he’s been inconsistent with how he feels about me. Demanding me to admit how I feel. Telling me he doesn’t have romantic feelings for me. Telling me he’s in love with me. Saying we’re just friends. Telling me he could see himself marrying me and having a baby with me. “It’s none of my business who he talks to” Saying he wishes he could take care of me.
Now, I realize writing that out, he looks like an asshole. He’s not. And I’m not wearing rose colored sunglasses, either. He’s been hurt and he’s emotionally immature. One of his best friends told me that I was the “best thing to ever happen to him and he doesn’t know how to deal with it.” It could be perceived that I am naive, but it’s taken me a while to move from a place of resentment to the eyes of compassion. Everyday I work on it, and I know it will be an uphill battle. I don’t believe that his actions come from a malicious place, but from a scared place. And no matter what I do, I can’t seem to get him to feel safe.
Anyway, what I’m getting at here is: is this a lost cause? Does this person need hours of therapy? Things have improved since we met, greatly. I never expected change from him, but he’s made it. But it seems we keep getting set back again, whether it be selfishness, a groupie throwing herself at him, me expecting too much, whatever. It always leaves me questioning if things will ever eventually get to a stable place or am I just a fool. Giving the man the sense of having a girlfriend, without having the guts to make it official.
I’m enjoying our time together, and it’s overall better than it is worse, but then there are just some days are incredibly exhausting. (Yesterday and today are those days)
How on earth could I find the stability to get over my own issues when he can’t even center on how he feels about me? (By the way, when he tells me he doesn’t have feelings, I’m fully aware its a defense mechanism, he also hasn’t told me he doesn’t have feelings in quite some time) Is my only option here to walk away from something that my gut things is worth it?
I know this was all over the place but if anyone has been in a similar scenarios, or has wise words, I’d love to hear them. And to the ones who have advised me in the past- I have really listened and applied! I truly and grateful for any time that has been spent on my insanity 🙂
November 7, 2013 at 5:12 pm #44982MattParticipantDanielle,
I’m sorry for the confusion and spinning surrounding your romantic spirit, and understand how difficult it can be to allow ourselves to be vulnerable. Often times in relationships we get what we give. Really in all aspects of our journey, what we sew we reap. We plant seeds, and harvest fruit. Etc. A few things came to heart as I read your words.
Consider that you seem to be blaming him for being scared of making the same move you are scared of making. When its on your side its “I’m working on it, I’ve been burned in the past” and so forth. When its on his side, its “man up” or “should I walk away?” and so forth. Respectfully, it is silly to project judgment toward others for doing the same thing we are doing.
Next, why is it his move? You say you know how you feel about him, are in love with him, but are scared. That makes sense, dear sister. Being in love is scary. You, me, him… we all feel fear when we are in love, because vulnerability opens up (like it or not) and the unknown rears its head. What if it goes south? What if he cheats? What if he dies? What if the 3 month curse strikes again? On and on and on our whole lives can skirt past us while we are worrying about the future, the what if. That’s the really scary thing… what if you are so scared of being open that you forget to live?
I wish I could say you are a fool Danielle. A fool in tarot is a being on a journey, who follows their heart, their dream, right off the edge of a cliff. Along the way they find wisdom, passion, love and courage. Yes, its scary, and we jump anyway. Yes, if it goes south it will hurt a lot and we’ll cry, and we jump anyway. That’s what courage is, to have fear, believe in love, sing our heartfelt song, and hope for the best. Instead of that faith, you have “I just can’t! Its too scary!” That’s not being a fool… respectfully, its cowardice. Its understandable of course, because the pain from the past casts shadows in the present.
Finally, when we act wishy washy, it leads to wishy washy results. Said differently, if you want a different life then the one you have right now, it is up to you to grow it in that direction. No “man up”, “if only he will…” or any of that victim hibbityjab…. its your canvas, sister, and you are strong and brilliant. Consider another angle: perhaps the universe has blossomed a perfect teacher for you in this sortofboyfriend. A muse to push you beyond your fears. A chance. He is there, resting in love with you, calling your heart to open. Of course its scary, most of the roads worth walking are, because they require us to grow and change. It may not work out, but who cares? Failure and emotional pain is OK, you’ve been through it before… its all part of finding our love. Isn’t it worth the chance?
Namaste, sister, may you find your courage and peace.
With warmth,
MattNovember 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm #44989LindsayParticipant“When we act wishy washy, it leads to wishy washy results.” Matt– SO TRUE!!
This situation has been going on for two years. What you need to decide is whether you are okay with continuing the status quo. If you are okay with maintaining the status quo, by all means, keep doing what you are doing. If you are not okay with it, then you need to do something different. You can’t control what outcome will occur, what his response will be, whether he’ll love it or regret it someday, nothing. But YOU can decide whether you want to continue as things are right now or not. Act accordingly.
November 8, 2013 at 7:31 am #45007DanielleParticipantHi, thank you for both of your answers. I appreciate the feedback. In re-reading my original post, I do appear to be placing a lot of blame on him- know that is not my intention. I think he is an amazing man, which is why I have stuck it out through it all (and likewise, I know I am no bowl of cherries, either.)
I never intended to project judgment, as I realize there’s a probability he is confused as well.I don’t think I’m making it simple to understand my feelings, but I don’t at all think I am being wishy washy. Not to throw stones, but since the start he has back and forth with how he feels for me, though his actions have proved his feelings the entire time. But at the end of the day, if the individual cannot come to terms with their own feelings, how could I possibly expect it to grow into something bigger? I am practicing compassion, but sometimes it feels overwhelming.
I never told him “we are together or we are nothing” (though people have told me to do so) because I don’t think it’s a healthy way to begin any relationship. I have, however, told him I like him and I have no idea what the future holds for us, but I know it’ll be worth it. Which is the truth. I can’t jump in fully into saying “let’s be together” because I can’t shake the feeling that I’m forcing him.
You’re right, I am absolutely being a coward. I want him to make the decisions for me so that my heart remains unscathed. But the logical part of me realizes that to love fully, you may experience pain. And truthfully, I know he’s worth it- the love or the pain that comes from it. But I also know I cannot change a person and get them to look inside themselves and realize the same thing. He takes pride in the way he is able to repress his feelings, and romantic feelings are included. He’s jaded in that mindset of once it becomes official, it’s cursed. I’ve even mentioned in the past that it has been two years of a pseudo relationship and we’ve worked through all of the bumps and hiccups. But he insists it’s because we aren’t labeled, therefore, we cannot hurt each other. (which makes no sense to me because we have both obviously hurt each other in the past.)
Matt, I really like the fact that you brought up that the universe gave me a lesson with this sortofboyfriend. When things get tough and I find my mind overwhelming me with confusion, I remind myself of that. Being in this situation has made me reflect a lot on myself and look to change the things I don’t like about me. It’s not to say that it’s FOR him, but because of him, for sure. (for example- when I would argue with people in the past, I would storm away, angry, swallow my feelings, and come back happy and calm. Resulting in blow ups later. He has (unintentionally) taught me to be honest when something hurts, rather than filing it away- which is ironic because he’s the king of filing away) If all crumbles, I will walk away a better person, I know that for sure. (thought I’d obviously like it not to crumble haha)
Lindsay, thank you for your reply. I can only hope to one day be as strong as you. You made the entire situation seem so simple, and from the outside, it appears to be that way. But I assure you, it isn’t. I know that right now I have to figure out if I want to keep doing what I’ve been doing, to keep getting what I’ve been getting, or let go. My gut and my mind need to get in the same place.
I’m sorry if I’m all over the place. And I appreciate everyone’s time.
November 8, 2013 at 9:12 am #45011LindsayParticipantDanielle — Don’t worry, I know it’s anything but easy. And don’t mistake my simple words as a sign that I have my sh** together 🙂 I have far too much to learn and I’m stumbling through my relationships just as messily as everyone else. It’s just easier to break things down when you aren’t mired in the emotions. I’ve had relationships where I’ve taken a step back, and asked myself “Am I ok with the status quo? Have I been patient long enough or do I continue?” And that answer can change with time too. For a while, I might be okay with the status quo (willing to be patient). But at some point down the line, I might reach a point where I feel that I’m not satisfied with this anymore, that he cannot meet my needs or isn’t willing to try, perhaps I’ve been neglecting my own needs, and decide I need to try something else. I just don’t know which point you are at yet…
We all have a different threshold. Where is yours? If this continued on indefinitely, would you be okay with it? If it were the exact same 10 years from now? If he were dating other people (because you aren’t officially a couple), would you be okay with it? Are you willing to put two more years into this before it becomes “official”? Are you willing to put two more years into this before he decides he’s ready to move on? What about 5 years? Whatever answers you give to these questions right now, aren’t set in stone. You can always change your mind. But it might be helpful for you explore what your boundaries are and what your threshold is. This might help get your heart and mind in the same place (which they so rarely are!)
November 8, 2013 at 9:44 am #45016MattParticipantDanielle,
It wasn’t my intention to call your actions projection… only that you seem to give him the power in the relationship. That’s fine if its what you want, but then its silly to resent him for being who he is. For instance, if he says “where would you like to eat dinner?” And you really want sushi, but say “anywhere you want” then while you’re eating what he wanted, blaming him for not taking you to sushi isnt fitting.
Said differently: Danielle, from your post it seems really clear that you want more than what you have. If you are not clear about your desires, don’t resent him for plodding over them… don’t be confused that they aren’t being met… each partner in a relationship has the task of honoring each others desires by expressing, compromising, and fullfilling each other. You’re two years in, so its not “starting a relationship” at this point. Consider that label or not, your intimacy is romantic and well established at this point. What is it you’re looking for? “Him to change” is a less skillful aim… what would the label bring you that you don’t have now? Exclusiveness? Kids? Living together? If he balks at labels, perhaps he’d be willing to compromise and grow in the same direction… but avoid his hangups on specific words. Artists are often picky about that kind of thing… they see structure as limiting, confining. Its silly, because its actually quite freeing. We have a precise and exactly formed structure for airplanes, for example, and they allow us to fly. A very precisely understood set of boundaries in an intimacy is similar. It let’s us relax, set down the games and the doubt and just fly.
With warmth,
MattNovember 8, 2013 at 10:07 am #45017DanielleParticipantHi again.
You both are absolutely right in that I need to sit down and figure out what I want from him before I can proceed. As silly as it may seem, all I know right now is I want a future with him. I am ok with this, as long as there is some point where it becomes something more stable. I think that even though it’s been two years, we both have a lot of growing to do, individually, and together. I see this happening, and it does make me happy (which also keeps me holding on a bit) The best answer I have in regards to what I want is “I don’t know what I want with him, but not this forever, and I want him in my life.”– which is why I never felt it fair to have a talk with him about “us”
But you’re right. I do sometimes expect him to read my mind, and get resentful when he doesn’t. In fact, he probably has no idea that it bothers me so much sometimes that I feel the need to write in a forum, you know? I’ve recently learned how silly expectations are and how much they set us up for disappointment. I’m really working on that with him.(and everyone, for that matter)
I know the best way to deal with anything is take it day to day. I enjoy my time with him, and I think that supersedes any of the chaos we face. But as much as I try, I find myself getting ahead of myself. Not necessarily resenting him (anymore) but questioning “why does he say and act as my boyfriend, if he isn’t?” (which, I’m sure he could wonder about me, too.) I guess it’s all new for me. In any relationship I’ve been in in the past, the man would take the reigns. It’s not that I feel any one person needs to hold the power in a relationship, but I guess I’ve just never had joint share of it before.
Thank you both 🙂
November 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm #45448JoJOeParticipantI’d love to sugar coat this, offer you kid gloves, but I can’t.
All I hear is love is pain to overcome.
And that is your belief.
That’s your’s to hold solid, like rocks.
Also I have to add you have jealousy issues.
You must realize that if you want to embrace your own female self you must love us all, all of your sisters.
You also rationalize much. “oh, he’s not like that really”
But maybe, just maybe…….
and the last time I checked in on reality………
I believed the words and reacted appropriately to my self worth.
And alas the surprise, was indeed, the words were truth.“I like you, but am not inlove with you”
“I’m not sure how I feel”
“I need my space”
“You’re this….. and I don’t like it”
“I’m thinking about moving to another city”
“I got a call from my ex, who wants to meet up”I let them go freely, I know I am not here to regulate their existence, their future, their path.
I also know when my safety of emotions is concerned, I turn inward, outward and then forward, like a wind and sometimes like a tornado.November 18, 2013 at 12:28 pm #45452DanielleParticipantHi JoJOe,
Thank you for your response, and without appearing that I am coming across defensive, I would like to touch on a few things.
I reread my post and I am not sure I agree that I have jealousy issues. Am I insecure because the situation tends to be confusing? Sure. But I don’t lash out and blame external factors, and I certainly did not mean to come across as if I wasn’t embracing my female self.
I clarified he may seem one way as an outsider looking in, mainly because I didn’t want to tarnish his character. Many people have looked in on our ordeal and written it off as a waste of my time. However, I know it isn’t. But since this is a forum in which to seek advice, I wanted to be sure that, though he can be confusing, and it could come across as if he was leading me on, that is certainly not the case.
And in regards to the quotes, are you referring to a past experience of your own? Or are you basing that on what you interpreted from my post ? I am certainly interested in your input; however, your response left me a little confused.
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