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The RuminantParticipant
Hi,
Nobody here can know what might or might not aggravate him. I don’t think he would know what would aggravate him. The thing I do know about sociopaths and narcissists is that their whole world is build upon an illusion. That is how they navigate through everything and can excuse their own behavior. I think that is also the reason why they are so prone to aggression, because it is difficult to maintain this illusion. That is also the reason why people stay with them: they too have bought the illusion and believe it to be true. They’re dashing and exciting at first, but if you really think about it, it’s all talk and smoke and mirrors, and there’s really not that much to back up what we think to be true.
My one advice would be to break free from the illusion and see the whole thing for what it really is. But that requires you to heal yourself and focus on yourself and get in touch with reality. He will go on doing what he will do. Sometimes, those types are really afraid of reality and will flee if they have to face it, but like I said, there is no way of knowing what might aggravate him further. Regardless of that, you need to get back to reality and away from the illusions and the drama. I see from the old threads that you’ve been to AA. Whilst I don’t personally fully agree with the 12 steps program, part of it is to face the reality for what it really is and stop living a lie. So, you do have that route to help you along your journey. I guarantee you that the reality is much, much less intimidating that the world of illusions is.
June 13, 2014 at 11:09 pm in reply to: How do our values come into play? Are we true to them? #58802The RuminantParticipantHi to yourself!
OK, I wrote a response, then I looked up my own values I had written last year (and posted them on another website, which is why they have explanations and are written in English despite that not being my native language). Now I’m reflecting your question again against the values I had written before and decided to delete my initial response 🙂
My initial thought was that I would be OK with someone having values different from mine, as long as both would respect the other person’s values and would maintain their own integrity. I’m not so sure now. Looking at my own values, I don’t think I could be with someone who would think in a completely different way. I also am not attracted at all to men who lack values of their own. I would love to inspire a man, but I don’t want to influence him to the point that he would just abandon his own beliefs at the drop of a hat to adopt mine. I have met *many* men who are ready to agree with me or change their own opinions just because they wanted to please me, and it has never pleased me 🙂
I do think that values can change as we become more experienced about the world. We mellow and become more accepting and realize that there is not just one right way to do things and the ultimate truth is quite unobtainable to us mere humans. Being flexible and understanding could also be a value 🙂
Anyway, here are my values:
Respect towards all people and other living beings
Respect doesn’t have to be earned. Respect is something that you have in your heart and mind. Being respectful towards others, regardless of who they are and how they behave is in my opinion important. Everything has value. Mocking other people and calling them stupid is an ugly thing to do. To see someone as having less value and pointing that out is the mark of an immature and insecure person. We all have those moments, but it shouldn’t be a continual state of being.Being courageous
Everyone has bad days and we all get hurt and become fearful. Lashing out during an initial shock is understandable. Yet, when the moment passes, one should take time to heal the wounds and strive to move forward with courage. Seeing fault in everything, complaining and whining and fearmongering will not only cause damage to that person, but to everyone around them.Honesty and authenticity
This one is difficult, because we can easily lie to ourselves and still think that we’re being totally honest and authentic. Sometimes things can be so difficult and painful to look at and admit to, that we simply deny the reality and create an alternative one. Still, it’s something we should strive for.Supporting, encouraging and protecting others
When someone makes an effort to be authentic or show their vulnerability, it may spark fear in others who aren’t prepared to do that. I know I’ve felt that. Yet, those who are courageous enough to open their hearts should be supported and encouraged. We need to protect and nurture life, not destroy it and live as zombies.The RuminantParticipantHello Danielle!
Your post was clear and there is no need to apologize. If someone doesn’t understand, they will ask 🙂 That is kind of the crux of the matter: you are taking responsibility of other people’s feelings.
I can relate to what you are saying as I’ve had similar issues myself, and partly still do. It’s nowhere near as bad as it was before, as I actively let go and focus more on myself. It is possible to change unhealthy relationship patterns, it just requires some self-awareness.
I can completely understand how it weighs you down when you feel that you have this responsibility. But you are not the one who is responsible. There is a difference between being a compassionate listener and actually taking on the responsibility of making sure that the other person feels comfortable.
I remember this one time when I was in a support group meeting. I think it might’ve even been the very first time I attended. Essentially, everyone had a chance to talk, one at a time, and others would listen, but nobody was allowed to comment. Because of this rule, I had to really pay attention to being quiet when another person was talking. It’s not that I would’ve always been someone who would interrupt, but I had no idea that I had subconsciously made so many small gestures, as if I was tending to the person who was speaking. It was weird. I had to hold my hand over my mouth in a subtle way so that I would remember to keep quiet and allow the other person to speak. What people were speaking there were mostly about problematic things. This made it even harder for me to stay quiet. Listening to another person who was lost and confused, and I was not allowed to do anything or say anything. Something in my brain clicked and I pretty much physically felt for the first time in my life my own boundaries: I am responsible for my own issues and the other person was responsible of their issues. It felt incredible, like a bond had been cut and I was free.
This was the epiphany for me, but the change has happened through small changes. Changing my habits of getting too involved. It is difficult, especially with people who are close to you. It’s easier to start with people who you don’t know that well.
I got help from the formal setting, but I’m not sure what sort of support group would be suitable for you, or if it’s needed otherwise.
Still, I’d start to let go of the thought that it is your job to entertain others or keep them happy. Allow silences to happen in conversations, no matter how uncomfortable it feels. The more you do it, the more you get used to it. When you notice that you are getting sucked into another person’s life, made a conscious effort to let go and center yourself. Your life happens in your body, and that is where you should live. Not focusing on other people and tending to their emotional needs. You can listen and be compassionate without spending your energy on other people. You’re not their battery. They have their own.
The RuminantParticipantWell, I have expanded my “experiment”, and I’m actively not getting involved in everything, not only on FB, but elsewhere as well. Especially if I feel like I have to point out my own unique point of view, I stop myself and ask “why?”. Why do I need to entangle myself with things that do not matter? Do I need to make everything public?
The less I share and the more I keep things to myself, the more I feel like I’m in control of my own life and I feel free and happy.
I’m not saying that not sharing thoughts is bad (I’m sharing my thoughts right now), but to be much more discerning about when and what. Being silent not only allows me not to get too entangled with thoughts (especially other people’s thoughts), but also enforces my boundaries. What other people think is their business and what I think is my business 🙂
The RuminantParticipantQuicksand is an interesting metaphor, because your chances of survival depend highly on how you respond to it. If you panic and believe that you are powerless, the more likely you’ll sink further in. However, if you respond with calmness and use your skills, you can maneuver yourself out of it.
You have been practicing mindfulness, so you already are more skillful and have more knowledge of survival than many others. Chances are that you have much better skills at handling the emotional pain if it comes back. Ironically, what makes pain really painful is when we fight back and refuse to face it. If we’d allow pain to just make it’s way naturally through our mind and just examine it instead of fighting it, it would feel more like sorrow and sadness.
The RuminantParticipantDear Breathing,
I saw this post yesterday, and felt like I needed to respond, but I was overcome by fear of saying the wrong things. I’m not a Buddhist (although I’m also not un-Buddhist-like). I haven’t experienced what you’ve experienced, so I can’t truly relate. I am sorry for all the suffering you have gone through on your journey.
After the most peculiar sequence of events, I am now awake at 3.44am after waking up from the most horrific child abuse related nightmare (complete fiction, but scary) and having to calm myself down by going through some actual events that have happened to me, which I was thinking about before I fell asleep. I’m not going to get into the details, as they don’t matter, but I feel compelled now to share couple of thoughts that came to me during tonight.
Reconnect with the reality after the dream. Not just today’s reality, but also to accept what has happened before. Turn to the child within, who’s probably feeling scared after being reminded of the past, and say something like “Yes, it did happen, I’m sorry and I refuse to carry shame over what has happened.” Something that has been suppressed and hidden for a long time has a need to be acknowledged before it can go away. I am sure that you have been working on this before, but if it does come back again, then acknowledging and accepting the reality would hopefully bring some release. Also, I think that it’s important to acknowledge the child within and his suffering. When we are children, we don’t have a strong voice and what we would’ve then most needed is someone to acknowledge and listen and validate. As an adult, you can give the much needed attention to your own inner child.
Sleep and dreams serve a purpose. We need all of it, the deep sleep and the dreams states, to keep ourselves sane. When we rest, the brain is tended to, and everything that we have been thinking of or have experienced will go through inspection. Mostly new stuff, sometimes old. Even the things we don’t want to think about, and sometimes especially the things we don’t want to think about. I have occasionally these dreams where all the rage I’ve been bottling up as a child and teenager will come out in the most aggressive ways. At first they scared me, but now I look at them as something that keeps me sane. Sure, it takes a while to calm down afterwards, but it’s also good to put the dream into perspective and not necessarily seek any bigger meaning in it.
I hope you will find a way to face the emotional turmoil.
June 3, 2014 at 12:44 am in reply to: Who are you ? How did you become this person you call " myself" ? #57984The RuminantParticipantOh, and I would like to add one thing, as there is one definition I do think is important: you are worthy and you are loved.
I have sometimes described the human personality as a unique tinted glass painting (you know those things in churches, for example). If there is no light coming through, the colors look muddy. If there is light coming through, the colors become vivid. The painting hasn’t changed, but it looks completely different.
If we think of that analogy in the context of what we are discussing here, it would be terribly difficult of you to define what the painting actually looks like if the light keeps flickering. You need to uphold the light mindfully, to be radiant in each moment, but when you are radiant, there’s just the celebration of your own unique painting, and there is no reason to start describing it to others or to yourself. People can see it. You can see it. Then if you let the light dim or even die, you’ll just see these muddy colors in particular shapes. Does it matter if the painting is that of an eagle, if the colors are muddy? You’ll believe that you are a muddy eagle, and that’s not the whole truth.
I hope that wasn’t a too confusing explanation 🙂
June 3, 2014 at 12:27 am in reply to: Who are you ? How did you become this person you call " myself" ? #57983The RuminantParticipant“What I am – is changing in any given moment – very true, but don’t you think that sometimes having a fluid sense of self can also create conflict / crisis ? For me it creates confusion. For example – am I suppose to be strong in a given moment of pain or should I allow myself to break down and let it out of my system ? If I develop a pattern of breaking down each time ( since I allowed myself to ) then will I ever know what it is to be strong ? It’s hard to separate thoughts of what I am suppose to be and what I am .”
I don’t think that you are changing constantly, but the circumstances change and you do grow and learn all the time. I think that the whole point of being fluid (or authentic) is to not create patterns or respond to things with “should” and “supposed to”.
I do think that everyone would benefit greatly from developing some skills like being patient. To not react to things without any thought, but to respond only after a moment of reflection. You can still respond to things with authenticity from your unique point of view. You’d just be doing it in a more mature way. It would be the mature version of yourself.
I’ll ask you to think of this: who is asking you to define yourself and for what purpose? We strive to define our whole being in a few keywords, but why? It is one thing to list skills in a job interview, but to describe yourself as a person is kind of pointless.
A person says that they are “confident, independent and kind”. They know it, and we know it, that they’re not those things 100% of the time. Some people aren’t those things most of the time, and they still describe themselves as such. For what purpose? So that we could treat them with prejudice instead of allowing them to show their true colours? It makes no sense when you really think about it.
Even in dating ads, one should rather describe how they feel about things rather than saying who they think they are. Because in all honesty, a person who makes a big deal about being a kind person often is everything but. Probably because they believe that they are kind, so they have become blind to their own unkind actions. Cognitive dissonance: when you really believe something, you’re unable to process conflicting information and disregard it instead. Or, run into an identity crisis. Or believe your whole life that you are something bad, which you’re actually not, and that is a tragedy.
But I digress. I guess you responded to the question of “why” in your story about the children. Having a definition of yourself makes you feel more safe, because then you have this clear place and identity in this life, and a readymade pattern of how you’ll behave in the future. You create your own destiny for yourself, which feels safer than allowing life and who you are to unfold naturally. Unfortunately life isn’t going to be any safer, life will still unfold itself all the time, but you might miss out on some of the things that are unfolded in you. You can’t see them, because you are looking at yourself through a definition you’ve created for yourself.
The RuminantParticipantThis has been a good conversation, because I actually got pretty turned off by Facebook 🙂 It hasn’t been hugely addictive to me lately, after I went back there, but some ugly old patterns have emerged, which I want to avoid. I’ve wanted to get away from it, but didn’t want to disappear again (which I did before). Now I removed it from my tablet and phone. I can still access it, I just don’t want to, and now there are no icons to tap out of habit.
It feels good to notice when something is starting to go wrong and actually stop and make the decision to not continue moving to that direction. There are so many things I want to do and being distracted by other people’s lives or seeking validation from them aren’t going to get me to where I want to be.
The RuminantParticipantI think you hit the nail on the head there, Inky. Men don’t take it as seriously as women tend to do. For women, social circles are so important, and FB is like a social circle on steroids. Men don’t care 🙂 Someone’s ego got a bit bruised because you didn’t accept their friend request? Tough! In the meanwhile, women are coming up with elaborate schemes on how to juggle everything so that nobody gets hurt and everyone is happy and everything ends up looking like a bed of roses 🙂
…and this is why as a recovering codependent, FB is not good for me. I really do need to scale it back. Do something. It’s not a huge problem for me, but it can potentially derail the healing.
The RuminantParticipantOh, I’m sure it is very convenient considering the content. My issue with it is purely my own fixation with how things should be done 🙂 It always perplexes me why people prefer services and tools that aren’t nearly as user friendly and up to date as some other service. Just like I’m interested in psychology in general, I’m interested in user interfaces in software and web sites, and it annoys me that I can not understand why people gravitate in masses towards websites that look horrible 🙂
Part of me really wants to go on a dating website again, even just for friendships, but I keep talking myself out of it. I think I would rather communicate with people on niche websites (like this one). It’s not just me who becomes jaded on those websites, but it’s everyone else as well, so the communication becomes very shallow and aggressive, and I don’t like that.
The RuminantParticipantProper Facebook drama 🙂 Oh, and people can be mad, no matter what you do. Because obviously it is about them 🙂
I do think that FB is starting to be quite passé anyway. They’re constantly introducing new ways to violate people’s privacy, so in a way, it would be easy to go now or start over. Just say that you want to take control over what you post, just in case. Or say that you leave FB and start a new profile under a false name and limited friends list. There’s plenty of those these days. Only those on their friends list know their true identity, so it’s easier to share. Then again, that can obviously also backfire, if you have several mutual friends with those who aren’t going to be on your new friends list.
Let me know if you find a better way to connect with others, because I’m really also looking for a way to escape 🙂
The RuminantParticipantWell, human sexuality is kind of complex. Or in a way, I suppose it should be rather simple, but we make it very complex. Just like eating. We all need to eat, it is a very basic physiological need, but then we turn it into something difficult. Just like people have eating disorders, people have difficulties handling their sexuality.
I used to have problems combining sexual attraction and love. I think part of it was this self-hatred that I had. I’m not sure. I still have healing to do in that department, but clearly I have been able to combine love and sex now. The difference between then and now is that I actually appreciate myself and have love in me.
I’m very liberal when it comes to people’s sexuality, so if someone truly thinks that they are happiest engaging in what ever they are engaging in, then go for it. I would say though, that before engaging in anything, one should be content with themselves, be able to feel empathy and compassion (towards themselves and others) and have a healthy emotional mindset. There are so many people who try to fix their emotional wounds through sex (or food), and it’s quite sad, because it’s not going to fix things. In worst case, it will create more wounds and destroy the person even further.
So, if I were you, I wouldn’t necessarily draw any conclusions about your sexuality before you have truly worked on yourself. I remember your posts, and I think you might have a lot of “symptoms” stemming from the same root cause. Have you tried any meditation practice to start healing from within?
The RuminantParticipantI don’t like it now, and I’m trying to figure out ways to get away from it without losing the contact with the people with whom I am only in contact through FB. I was away from there for a long time and during that time I became calmer and less egocentric. Now I can clearly see what a bad influence it can have on a person.
I have had to stop following some people. I haven’t removed them from my friends list, but I become a bit depressed when I see them post something. The endless whining over things. In most cases, it has stopped being about the actual topic, and it’s just a way for people to let others know how discontent they are with everything. I’ve also noticed that there is no point in engaging some people. I once tried, in vain, to tell someone that if they are so worried over social inequality, then perhaps they shouldn’t target one particular group of people and blame them for all the problems in the world. She didn’t understand me at all, and was hell bent on unleashing her wrath over a specific group of people, without an ounce of self-awareness. People are so focused on what they are talking about and are so obsessed with being right, that they forget what the point originally was supposed to be. Oh well.
You can have “tiers” in your FB. Just group the people you want to share things with and when ever you post, just post so that they are the only ones who see things. I know it takes a bit of effort and I honestly can’t be bothered myself anymore.
So, I guess I don’t really have any solution for you, but you do have my sympathies. I really dislike FB and I think it’s bad for people’s mental health.
The RuminantParticipantI didn’t know such a thing existed, and now I feel conflicted about it, and I’m not sure why 🙂
I can understand the “missing connection” type of things back then when we didn’t have the Internet or social media. It was kind of romantic then, when one would seek out a person they were longing after. I wonder why now it just feels really stalker-ish and creepy 🙂
I’m sure people haven’t changed that much, and starting to talk to a person would feel intimidating. I don’t think there’s any difference between men and women when it comes to fear of rejection. I’m sure it can feel safer to post an ad instead of really putting yourself out there. I’ve just become a bit jaded with people connecting over the Internet. It seems like some want instant gratification without any extra effort from their part. It’s pretty much the opposite of romance for me.
Also, I have to say that I really do dislike Craigslist 🙂 I can’t understand it’s appeal. It is like an ugly, old web edition of a newspaper ads column. With all the possibilities with latest web technologies, that’s what people want? Can’t stand it 🙂
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