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March 1, 2021 at 1:54 pm in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #375409Spry_RyParticipant
Oh, thank you, Anita. Take your time. I always appreciate your counsel.
Ryan
March 1, 2021 at 7:48 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #375393Spry_RyParticipantDear Teak,
Thank you so much for taking the time to both read my ramblings and making a comprehensive reply.
Yes, she has kept her āprotective shieldā up with me since day one, and we have only briefly found intimacy. Regrettably, alcohol was involved in both instances; however, she was sober the next morning at the cabin when we kissed again, held one another, and my hand on her leg and her hand on my arm as we drove home. Yet, I think she decided against itālikely to protect her heart, as she saw nothing long-term with us.
Her week away with no contact and the inappropriate comments about the maintenance man solidified that our relationship would remain casual and likely inconsequential. I have thought often about why I feel such an attraction to her. Not so much a physical attractionāthough that obviously existsābut more of that connectionĀ Iāve written about. There was just something there for me at our first ādateā that I cannot explain. And ease or comfort that I have rarely found with another. Anita astutely explained that this connection may always have been heavily aided by my counseling last year, and my willingness to open up and be vulnerable with another person. Regrettably, this other person may have not been as willing to be vulnerable with me. I have learned in our brief relationship these past few months how fiercely independent she is, and while I think she desires a companion, she has acknowledged that she is strong enough to walk this world alone. For example, I wrote here before how I told her that I was glad she did not have to be alone the night I had her over for dinner after her invasive screening/test for cervical cancer last month. She sharply replied something to the effect that, āI was alone the last time,ā referring to a previous surgery to remove some (pre)cancerous growth.
I asked her at dinner on Wednesday why her parents and her husband at the time both allowed her to nearly die when she was battling the eating disorder a few years ago. She said her father would often āpinch her sidesā as a teenager, which clearly added to her body image issues. She said that she has always been ābottom heavyāāshe has a thicker butt and thighs but probably A-cup breasts, which she has admitted she does not like, so body image contributes too. Her mother had either checked out or simply did not want to get involved in her life. (She tries to maintain a strong relationship with her parents, which both surprises me and fascinates me, as they both were not great parents until recently.) She said her husband loved her no matter what she looked like but explained that he found her āsexierā after she gained weight again. This angered her as she nearly died but he did not engage her on any meaningful level about her eating disorder until she was in recovery.
Finally, I agree with you regarding myĀ savior complex. I believe it was Anita who too identified that before. I will bring that up with my counselor at my next appointment, as I have often felt this in relationships. I have dated a few damaged women, and I ultimately try to save them, which ultimately causes me stress and pain. (I mentioned previously trying to help someone years ago, and ultimately walking away, only to have her commit suicide.) With my coworker, there was the initial attraction/connection on my part, which evolved to a need to show her that I was different and that I could be a base of support as time went on. Granted we have only been friends since mid-November 2020.
I suppose my torment comes from a sense of rejection by her. Not in the romantic sense but it of the almost consistent rebuff by her. I immensely enjoy her and her company, but she seems quite ambivalent about me. I donāt know. Maybe āambivalentā is too strong a word, but she seems incapable of revealing that I possibly mean something to her. Perhaps I do but she is not willing to be vulnerable. And that snub stings but that has to do with her, as you wrote, TeaK.
You are right and I need to figure out this need to be a āsavior.ā And I do need to accept her feelings towards our relationship and refocus on myself. While I will remain her friend, I cannot invest any more of myself in this relationship. Itās only going to end badly for me.
February 28, 2021 at 6:44 pm in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #375386Spry_RyParticipantThis is likely the last time I will write in this thread about my coworker. I do truly appreciate your understanding and advice with this piece of my life, Anita (and Brandy). Truly! This has been a welcome outlet to spill out my thoughts, but, honestly, I barely had the will or energy to write this post…
I never heard from her while she was away for a week on her vacation last week. This was not unexpected, and the distance allowed me to further emotionally break away. We did go out for dinner and drinks this past Wednesday, and while it was another fun night, gone was anything beyond the existing friendship. Any touching of my arm or back had stopped weeks agoāafter the post-cabin ādateā when she revealed that she saw nothing long-term with us. Even our goodbye was a quick hug and a few pats on my back from her. It stung as I knew that we would be platonic and any hopes for a deeper friendship had passed. But the physical contactāeven simply the glancing touch on my arm or her hand on my arm as we watched a movie was missed.
She mentioned something surprising over drinks. I said that I purposely did not message her because I felt that she needed to get away and take a break from her life here when she traveled south to visit her best friend. She replied that she appreciated that and she indeed did, and that is the reason we were out together and she was not out with her friends this past week. That many of them had āblown up her phoneā by Facebook messaging her and texting her, with some complaining that she didnāt reply. She appreciated that I did not contact her and that was one of the main reasons that we hung out. Interesting if a little selfish perhaps in my opinion.
What led to this was that I mentioned her having an avoidant personality style. She did not understand what that was, so I tried to explain that she tends to retreat from people when she feels that she needs to. (I didnāt expound to say that she seems to retreat when people get close, as I didnāt want to tie myself into the explanation.) She said that was accurate and itās to be expected when one was raised by an alcoholic father and a bipolar mother. That she had to learn to be self-sufficient at a young age and worked hard to get out of that situation as soon as she was able. She ended up moving out of her parentsā home and into her own apartment at 16-years of age. She also mentioned that she wasnāt one of the āpretty or cool girlsā in high school and couldnāt wait to finish. All factors that led to her being so driven in academia.
Yesterday (Saturday morning), she had sent out a Snapchat picture of her kitchen ceiling with a large hole in it. I messaged to ask her about it, which had turned out to be a water leak from her shower that was, unfortunately, entirely her fault.
We went back and forth for a few before she replied, āGood news is I get to see the cute maintenance man again on Monday. He has an 11 year old and an 10 yr old and an 8 year oldā¦ š¤¢ Iām like dude it put awayā¦.but also whip it out. Let me see what all them kids is about lol š I am trash lol š“
Taken aback, I replied, āWow. Just donāt let him use your bathroom and sneak around the corner on him if heās naked. ;-)ā
To which she replied, āStop with the wink! It was an accident lol. Iām not a predator, sir! Iāll get back to the old sex shop this weekend and tame the beast. Then I wonāt be such a perv lol. Iāve already got the remedy. Just need to refill the prescription lol.ā
This is a woman who speaks two languages and taught the second language at the university level. Crude and jarring? Yes, but also telling. Clearly, she sees me as nothing more than a friend if she is willing to share that. While it stung to read, I did not show it in my reply by maintaining a light and playful tone. Yet, somehow, she interpreted my teasing that she purposefully walked in on me changing at the cabin was somehow āpredatoryā?
This exchange yesterday was the final nail in the coffin for me. I have no more energy to give the relationship and cannot continue to hope for something that simply is not going to manifest, and I must come to terms with what it is. I desired to be, or thought I could be, a more significant piece of her life than I am or was. To her credit, she never offered me any false hopes (other than the few kisses), and to my knowledge, she was never dishonest with me. She never used me or manipulated me I felt. Our ādatesā were strangely calm and enjoyable, and she never played games. What I mean is she never would cancel at the last minute and was always present and engaging when we were together. Yet, when we were apart, I felt like an afterthought. Yes, she would text on occasion but it could be days in between.
Further, things with us were always planned. Perhaps only twice has she texted me to spontaneously ask if I wanted to hang out. Yes, she teleworks her full-time office job with me, and her second, the part-time food service job, most Friday and Saturday nights, which leaves her only Sunday as her single day off. However, only once has she asked me to hang out, and that was simply because I was making a run to Starbucks and asked if she wanted me to drop off a coffee. Itās been over a month since she invited me over for dinner. Whenever I gave her a giftārarely anything personal, but rather practicalāshe would always ask if it was extra something I had, and nothing purchased simply for her. She mentioned at dinner on Wednesday that she āhates giftsā but would always welcome a card or letter.
While I have told her in person, via text message, and the lengthy letter/email I wrote, about what she means to me and how much I appreciate her, never have any platitudes it been initiated by her. Any platitudes have always been in response to my own. At times, compliments I made to her were deflected or ignored. Hell, even the letter I wrote her was not acknowledged until a week later at dinnerāand then only briefly discussed. Did it mean anything to her?
I wanted to be someone different for her here in the small town in the middle of nowhere. Someone other than the country boys that abound. Someone who does more than drink, hunt, and fish. Wanted her to know that itās okay to lean on others. That those she lets close arenāt going to let her down. That men see more in her than just a sexual being. (Not that she isnāt sexy, and I would not refuse if presented the opportunity.)
She may be looking for someone but that someone just isnāt me, or she may be just focusing on herself and trying to figure out her life now that she has a secure and well-paying job. She has been actively looking to purchase a home about 45 mins away where she both attended and taught college. Over drinks the other night, she fretted about being able to compare to the āyoung and hotā college girls if/when she moves away. (She is only in her mid-20s, so I donāt think she has much to worry aboutāother than the overabundance of tanning salon visits and her vaping and drinking.)
Iāll continue to support her as a friend but cannot invest any more of myself with little to no reciprocity. No matter how much I say or write, she never seemed to want to show me any more of herself. Iād get bits and pieces of the stressors and traumas that were her life when she was younger, but she always keeps those walls up or uses alcohol to lean on. I would oftentimes foolishly wait for a call/text asking if I wanted to hang out with her but it never came.
I know that Iām jumped in too quickly after we met. Meeting someone attractive and intelligent here after nearly a year alone in isolation was thrilling and electrifying. Still, she stifled things before our second ādateā by texting that she did not feel that dating a coworker was the best idea. I donāt believe she has ever flirted with me. And while there was the brief period before the cabin when it felt like we may have been moving toward a deeper friendship, but she has chosen to not take that path. She was/in under no obligation to give me her time, affections, and pieces of herself to me.
I began this post this morning but spent the day trying to figure out why Iām so sad/distraught/letdown. I think part of it is a regret that I am so much older than her. While she remained unruffled when I revealed that I had a daughter only a few years younger than her, she did reveal at the dinner after the cabin that āit freaked her out.ā I canāt help but shake that she was initially interested, then decided that it was more or less a dealbreaker, then in the weeks before the cabināand then the cabinābegan to develop feelings, only to ultimately decided that a friends is all we would be. This is understandable.
I think what bothers me the most is she has always seemed so ambivalent. Thinking back, she rarely asks about me, my family, friends, shows I may be watching, books I may be reading, etc. It feels almost selfish to an extent. While I have tried to support her to be the best person she can beāto build her up rather than tear her downāit often feels unbalanced. And while she occasionally call/FaceTime during work once a week, we usually talk about mundane things. Iāll often chat more about my life with my other coworkers than I do with her. And I certainly do not have the same relationship I have with them as I do with her.
This relationship may have run its course. I know sheāll meet someone or move further away, so I should continue to let any amorous ideas go. I hope that Iām eventually able to see her from a platonic level and not care as much as I do. I see something in herāher potentialābut I donāt know what she has hidden that may hold her back. While I had wished that we could have talked of hopes and dreams, or build a deeper friendship, she seems unwilling or unable to do so with me. I will continue to support her but will refrain from asking her out for dinner or inviting her over to my place for dinner. I think that she is still working to figure out her lifeāthrough both counseling and alcoholāand she cannot allow anyone to be an impediment. Or, as the saying goes, she just isnāt that into me.
February 27, 2021 at 1:19 pm in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #375361Spry_RyParticipantThank you, Anita. I did not ever connect my childhood experiences to social cognitive deficits, or rather that they would lead to a “deficit.” Hopefully, the therapy and my work help to fill this void inside me.
Ryan
February 21, 2021 at 9:42 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #375022Spry_RyParticipantDear Anita,
Before I wrote here this morning, I serendipitously, stumbled upon this clip from the Matthias Barker podcast via TikTok, and heard this quote by John Mark Comer:
As long as you live in the prison of where you have to get what you want to be happy, no person, no marriage, no job, no life, no identity, no sexual experience, no income bracket, no travel experience, no passport. Fill in the blank. Nothing will ever be able to always give what you want, and you will run over people. Sabotage people. People will become objects by which you try to self-gratify and feed your narcissism. Even if it masquerades as āIām falling in love. Or this is great. I love these people!ā
His words hit me hard due to their accuracy. This was often how I spent my life: Trying to find people or experiences to fill the void inside me. While I didnāt want to believe that I was narcissistic, I realized in the last few years that narcissism was a core trait. This may have partially originated from the distance my mother kept with me, which may have fed into my feelings of low self-esteem as I grew. (Low self-esteem was something I worked hard to overcome, and it wasnāt until my late 30s that I finally felt that I had a handle on it.)
I feel this quest for happinessāand my work in therapy last year to work on connecting and being vulnerable around peopleāmade for the relationship with my coworker friend to be more stressful than it should have been. As Iāve written, perhaps I jumped in too far too soon without understanding the nature of the relationship? Perhaps I forced things (e.g., the kiss on the first date, the cabin, the little gifts, etc.) without appreciating that she was solely focused on her growth and evolution since her divorce and recovery from her eating disorder? Perhaps I imagined something thereāthat āconnectionāāwhen there truly was not one?
I havenāt heard from my coworker friend since the days before she left for her trip. She returns today and I imagine I wonāt hear from her until we return to work in the morning. While I donāt embrace social media as many others do, we are āFacebook friends,ā and she has not posted there since before she left. I believe she needed a break from life here and just wanted to focus on her time there with her best friend.
Her time away was good for me too. The physical distance between us allowed me to divest a bit from the relationship. Something had changed in her since we returned from the cabin. Yes, there her explicit declaration that there would be no ālong term relationship,ā and that anything physical would extend only as far as hugging. However, there was an emotional retraction as well. She would not text unless it was something work-related or something that concerned her, and the week before she left was the really first week we had not hung out since we began hanging out in mid-November.
I may be wrong, but I feel like she may have felt the beginnings of something for me but cast those feelings aside to be practical or to protect herself. She may enjoy my company and like me as a person but does not see a chance at a long-term relationship and doesnāt want to put her heart through the pain of another relationship that will not go the distance. The long embrace as she was leaving after dinner here (the night of her Pap screen) may have been her way of saying both thank youĀ and goodbye, as we have not hung out since. I donāt know. I enjoyed our time together, as I think she did too, but perhaps she needed to take a step back.
I guess the point of writing today is to say that her week away has given me a chance to reflect and reframe things. While a part of me does hope that we can remain friends, and possibly grow closer as friends, I need to continue to focus on moving somewhere else and finally putting down roots.
I am happy to have met her when I did, as someone else may have been seeking a companion, which I donāt know if Iām ready for that. Yes, companionship would be fantastic, but can I be a good partner while Iām still seeking my place in the world? This person, as I believe my coworker did, would feel my narcissism and I could sabotage the relationship as I often did in the past. My coworker friend is beautiful, intelligent, driven, and many other positive qualities that fed me. And while I overlooked her negative qualities, I may have sacrificed too much of myself at the chance of a relationship with her. Especially if/when sex may have become involved and muddied the waters.
She mentioned in our FaceTime chat the Friday before she left that she had plans to quit her second job now that she has received a pay raise and paid off her debts. That her second job exhausts her and leaves her with little free timeāespecially now with Spring right around the corner. That working in a brewery causes her to drink too much, and as I wrote here before, the nature of the foodservice industry gives her access to marijuana. The text from her I shared here before:
I havenāt been really partaking much – I donāt like the people I have to get it from. They creep me out. Oh, the joys of being female š„² and the joys of suppressing something that doesnāt need to be suppressed so it gets pumped in with unsavory characters.
At least for me, there was an unusual connection to her, and Iād like to see her live a cleaner life and live up to the potential I see in her. I wish that we could have gotten to know each other better and grown closer and maybe we will. Or maybe we wonāt and that is okay too. I need to continue to work on myself before I jump in with someone.
February 15, 2021 at 11:44 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374699Spry_RyParticipantDear Anita,
Yes, your observations are sound, rational, and logical! I do tend to overthink (hyper analyze) in life, rather than let things just continue down their obvious path. And, yes, a part of me is miffed that she did not return a text. She mentioned early in the relationship that she is bad about returning texts, and I suppose that I got a bit spoiled because she would often return mine in a timely manner. Her recent reluctance to return my texts certainly feeds into my insecurities. And I wasnāt bothered by her 8-word response to my āthoughtful text.ā I appreciated that she felt the same.
I agree with your reply regarding the commenting about my ātrouble connecting and staying connected with a person.ā Yes, if I feel that illusive connection with someone, I have (in the past) often pushed them away. Then, I feel guilt and loneliness and the lost connection. Guilt from the self-imposed idea that I was stringing them along, and loneliness from the feeling of them āseeing meā but not really seeing me. (Obviously, they could not āsee meā because I never allowed them to.)
I read something after I made this last post was about loneliness. That one of the strongest yearnings people have is to be known and to be seen. The comfort and the affirmation that comes when someone really knows you, or sees you, and gets you. Itās me feeling ādifferentā and never feeling validated.Ā With my coworker, it felt like she both saw me and accepted me immediately. This was due to me not being afraid to be vulnerable and her empathic nature. (Her, as an empath, may explain her emotional distance as closeness and intimacy can be overwhelming.) And allowing her to see me was exciting and I chased those feelingsāeven as she chose to keep me at a distance (or control the nature and level of emotional intimacy).
February 15, 2021 at 10:11 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374695Spry_RyParticipantMorning Anita & Brandy,
First, I want to again say thank for all your advice here. This is a tremendous space and I truly appreciate you taking the time to counsel here. Not sure how I stumbled upon TB but I am thankful that I did.
I have decided to abandon the notion of any type substantive relationship with my coworker. I feel that I invested in it far too quickly, and her words and actions have made it clear that we will likely remain rather casual friends. While it felt as though we were growing closed, she began distancing herselfāboth in communication and sociallyāsince we returned from the weekend getaway to the cabin. Learning that her divorce was only finalized the week before the getaway made her detachment a bit more logical. The emotional (and slightly physical) intimacy may have been something she was not ready for so soon after becoming officially single. Iām not quite sure but it would make sense.
She left yesterday (Sunday) afternoon to fly south for the week to visit her best friend for the week. I wished her save travels when I awoke in the morning but never received a reply, which did irritate me. I asked her last Monday if we could grab dinner some night during the week since I knew sheād be gone, to which she replied, āIām sure we can āŗļøā She never really had time during the week, so I asked her on Thursday morning if she wanted me to come by with some food while she packed, to which she replied, āIām not going to be much for company Iāll just be running around and doing chores so thereās nothing left to do over the weekend when I have to work.ā
I ran a few errands after work, so I packed a few sliced of homemade banana bread and a book she had wanted when she came by for dinner and ran it by her place since I was out. She wasnāt home so I left it on her door and texted her. She replied, āAhhh. Sorry I had some errands to run. Iāll be home here in a little bit tho. :)ā She ended up texting āThank you!ā a few hours later. I figured she was outāpossibly on a dateābut she had later said a girlfriend had come by after she returned from errands. Not that it matters.
As I said, I think that I invested too quickly in the relationship. The first ādateā in late November was so effortless, and the five hours flew by, that I did not consider her feelings. Afterwards, I was left wondering, āWhat will she mean to me? And what will she be in my life?ā After the year in isolation due to the pandemic and being new to the areaāand the work I did in counseling in late 2020 to work on being more vulnerable and connecting with peopleāleft me hungry for companionship and the connection with another human. I chose to ignore the difference in ages, the fact that she was newly single, her battle with her eating disorder and her addiction to nicotine. Even after her text before our second ādateāāabout ājust dipping her toes back into datingā and not feeling certain dating a coworker is the best choice for herāit felt like at least our friendship was deepening. And perhaps it was?
Her week away will be beneficial for her, as she wasnāt able to travel last year and hasnāt been able to see her best friend since 2019 I believe. It will be good for me too, as it will give me time to reframe things in my mind, as I wonāt have the opportunity to see her this week. Itās been a rather emotionally taxing relationship: The of the first ādate,ā to the return to Earth before the second, to the feelings of growth as the weeks went by, to the intimacy of the weekend getaway, to her aloofness and telling me that she sees nothing ālong term with us,ā and her broadening expanse that has followed.
Itās certainly made me a bit melancholy, but I should not find it surprising. Iād, on occasion, but her little practical gifts, and while appreciative, sheād often ask if it was something I had lying around or if she needed to repay me. She has never really let me know the real her. She has always kept me as an emotional distance. For example, last week, I asked if she was still smoking weed. She replied, āI havenāt been really partaking much – I donāt like the people I have to get it from. They creep me out. Oh the joys of being female š„² and the joys of suppressing something that doesnāt need to be suppressed so it gets pumped in with unsavory characters.ā I was going to ask what she is āsuppressingā the next time we hung out, but the prospect has not yet presented itself. As she is soon leaving her second job, it is my hope that she will continue to distance herself from the āunsavory charactersā and the drugs.
The phase of infatuation and teenage butterflies has passed, and I am hopeful that the emotional warmth will soon pass. Itās unfortunate but it is necessary. I need to refocus on finding another job out of this isolated area, and possibly meeting someone who wants to let me in. Someone of substance who isnāt afraid to let me in.
She reminds me of the character Clementine from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and her quote:
āI’m not a concept. Too many guys think I’m a concept or I complete them or I’m going to ‘make them alive’ā¦but I’m just a fucked up girl who’s looking for my own peace of mind. Don’t assign me yours.ā
It was confusing for me because it felt like we were close when we were together or spoke on the phone. However, once we were apart, the chasm opened again, which certainly messed with my emotions. For example, we spoke via FaceTime for about an hour on Wednesday. I texted her afterwards to say, “I like that we can have these deep conversations without the awkwardness. Serendipitously crossing paths with you is something I treasure immensely, and itās brought me some comfort peeling away the layers with you.” She replied, “Aww me too! For all of the above āŗļø” It has never felt like I was being “played,” but more so that she enjoys the intimacy on her terms and parameters.
I do not regret this relationship. It was coincidence or a blessing that we met when we did, or that I felt comfortable enough around her to be vulnerable. After being alone for so long, it was nice to find someone beautiful, intelligent, and intriguing that I connected with. (I know she felt the connection too even if she is unwilling to acknowledge it beyond the superficial.) While I hope(d) that our relationship can deepen, I am not willing to invest any more of myself in it when she too does not want to invest more of herself in it. It has often felt one-sided, as she was unable or unwilling to connect. I thought that I could be a good influence in her life, and maybe I was/am? While disappointing, I know that it would/will be an even more difficult transition if/when she meets someone and her time available for me would stop. Itās one of the perils of being in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Well, a relationship that felt more emotionally substantial than a simple friendship between coworkers.
It is a difficult pill to swallow but one I must choke down…
February 8, 2021 at 12:22 pm in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374327Spry_RyParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for that information! I will do some reading after work…
She has been dealing with this for years now. She said this morning that it had “been worse” in the past, but at least now she doesn’t need to worry about surgery at least for the next few months.
It’s awful when ones body betrays them (in a sense).
Ryan
February 8, 2021 at 9:46 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374310Spry_RyParticipantDear Anita & Brandy,
Her doctor’s office just called. Her precancerous cells haven’t gotten “any worse,” so they’ll see her again in 3-months. At least she can breathe a bit now.
Ryan
February 6, 2021 at 2:46 pm in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374232Spry_RyParticipantThank you, Brandy. I am hopeful for good news too.
Going to text her in the morning to see if she needs to get out of her home (and out of her head) for a bit.
Ryan
February 5, 2021 at 2:26 pm in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374124Spry_RyParticipantHi Brandy,
Thank you for replying and thank you for taking the time to write…
Yes, as I wrote before, I think the combination of being largely alone and isolated in 2020–combined with the counseling and work I did there and on my own–meeting her and instantly feeling comfortable and vulnerable with her pushing me to put the cart before the horse. I was willing to ignore some probable red flags for me (e.g., excessive drinking and vaping), and jump into wanting to have a serious relationship with her.
While I probably was ready, she certainly was not. We tended to act on our primal needs (to an extent) while ignoring that we may not be compatible in the long term. However, I feel we both are working to keep things light as they have usually been and enjoy the ride.
Ryan
P.S. I completely forgot about this when I wrote about the evening’s events. First, while she had spent 2020 separated from her husband, her divorced was not finalized until the week before we went to the cabin for the weekend in mid-January 2021. It’s no wonder she wasn’t wanting to jump into anything serious. Second, she revealed that she and a girlfriend had gotten a hotel room together a few days before Christmas and spent a day and night drinking and doing coke. I kept my physical reaction to a minimum, but this was certainly a shock. I am not sure why they felt the need to get that crazy, but thought that whatever stressors she was/is dealing could be mitigated by a alcohol and drug binge with her girlfriend. š As I said before, I see so many parallels between here and my friend who committed suicide years ago. Not that my current friend has suicidal tendencies but there is a battle raging inside her.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Spry_Ry.
February 5, 2021 at 12:34 pm in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374109Spry_RyParticipantDear Anita,
Yes, I think you’re right. For now, I am comfortable with things as they are. I said what I needed to say in my email to her, and her response of knowing that I “spoke from my soul” meant as lot. I think she has been hurt a few times in her life and she is cautiously working on a friendship with me. While I tried not to overanalyze our hug goodbye last night, the fact that she did not let go of the embrace for some time spoke volumes. I feel that my email, the easy conversation, a home cooked dinner, and time out of her own mind last night was what she truly needed.
As I’ve written, I truly enjoy her company and would like to continue earning her trust and building the friendship. While a part of me wants “concrete,” a piece of me takes comfort in the fluidity of our relationship. We can be “friends” or “close friends” without having to define it or label it. It is more important that she know that she is not simply a friend from work, and my actions during our time together have demonstrated that I may be someone she can trust not to hurt her.
Thank you, Anita.
Ryan
February 5, 2021 at 11:29 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374104Spry_RyParticipantHello Anita and Brandy,
Well, last night went rather flawlessly. And I didnāt want to cause her any more stress with the day she hadā¦
Yesterday afternoon, she had blood work and what I assume would be called a āPap screenā to detect any cervical cancer. While she has had the HPV vaccine, her doctor has found evidence of precancerous cells in the past during her yearly exam, which necessitated more regular screenings. The had recently found some precancerous cells, and not they had to do what she called the āscrapeā yesterday. Needless to say, it was a stressful day for her and Iām glad she did not have to be aloneāand told her such.
She finished her appointment around 3:30 yesterday but went home since I wasnāt off until 4:30. She tried to put a positive spin on it by saying something like, āAt least I wonāt have to worry about periods if they have to take my uterus,ā but I knew she was hiding her fears. We talked for a few and she said that she just wanted to have a drink and sit with her cat for a bit. I did not want her to sit and stew in her own mind for too long, so I texted her at 4:30 to say I was starting dinner. She replied that she was ready to head out.
She offered to help with dinner, but I put her to work tweaking a job application Iād been working on. She was a literature major and I knew that would keep her mind focused on a task while I cooked. After a bit, she finished up and she helped me finish up cooking dinner as we chatted. It was then that I asked as she stirred a sauce that we were awaiting to thicken.
āIām not sure if you saw my email but I wanted to talk to you about last week,ā I opened with. She teased me a bit about letting her know when I send an email because she has ā500 unread emails,ā but that she did see it and āknew I spoke from my soul.ā I explained that I wasnāt upset that she didnāt see us as long-term partners, as I truly didnāt it, but that I wanted her to know that she was not just a casual work friend that I hang out with on occasion. That I definitely feel a connection and she is special to me. She agreed and said that the cabin was a relaxing getaway that provided a ātype of intimacyā that did not need to involve sex. I also mentioned that with all the work I did in counseling last year, that it was luck (or something bigger) that I met someone so receptive to me being open and vulnerable. It was a quick conversation, but it felt good to clear things up a bit. I felt it was important that she knows that she is not just a causal work friend.
After dinner, we rinsed off the pans and dishes and retired to the sofa. She was full and sleepy and I said she could stay here if she dozed off. I put on the Star Trek movie and she perked up as she anticipated the plot and critiqued the plot holes. However, she did enjoy it and I think it kept her mind focused on something other than her own body.
After the movie, we chatted for a bit, before I walked her down to her car. We hugged goodbye, but it wasnāt her usual hug of a few seconds, but she embraced me for a bit. I kissed the top of her head and held on until she was ready to let go. It was unexpected and I donāt know if she feels a deeper connection to me after my email letter, or if it was nice to have a night away where she felt safe and peaceful. Either way, it does not matter. Iām happy that she was.
She works her second job tonight and tomorrow night, so Iām going to reach out on Sunday morning to see if she is doing okay or if she wants me to pull her out of her place for a bit. She will be anxiously awaiting the results of the test, and I hate to think of her sitting alone in her apartment all day hyper analyzing.
Ryan
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After I wrote this, I logged into Facebook to see she has posted a few pictures of the dinner I made last night and these two poems from L.E. Bowman:
“Don’t”
When she softens against you for the first time,
donāt pull her closer.
Donāt wrap your arms around her like you
feel it too.
When she is high on your skin and ready to open,
donāt help her unfold.
Donāt pull back her petals like you intend to watch
her bloom.
When the walls feel too restricting and you
stop calling.
donāt say that youāre busy.
Donāt tell her sheās crazy when her instincts tell her
the truth.
When the night is long and your body is lonely,
donāt wake her.
Donāt give her another piece of false hope to
cling to.“More to Life”
Youāll find someone better, theyāll tell you.
An earth-shattering lover.
A so-good-the-rest-donāt-matter kind of love.
And maybe you will, or maybe you wonāt,
but I want you to know
that there is more to live than lovers.
All your hope, all your betters
donāt have to exist around love.Thereās so much pain inside her that she has worked on in counseling and on her own through journaling. She has walled up her heart and worked to better her life on her own. Think my fascination with her lay in the mysteries?
- This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Spry_Ry.
February 4, 2021 at 8:13 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #374035Spry_RyParticipantThank you for chiming in, Brandy. I appreciate it.
Yes, I’ve thought a a great deal about what to say to her–based on Anita’s feedback and my own ruminations. I like your approach as well and will probably take a mixed approach that integrated both you and Anita’s points.
I’ve grown more accustomed to the fact that there is not a romantic future for us. While the lines have blurred on occasion, which led to making out and holding each other, the fact is that she does not see me as a potential romantic partner. And, honestly, that is probably for the best. You’ve seen my conversation here with Anita: My coworker friend battled an eating disorder, has quite the nicotine addition and vapes often, tends to drink more than she should (and has a recovered alcoholic father), and recently became divorced through a mutual understanding that they were merely good friends. The smoking and drinking would have worn on me as time went on, and I would have grown frustrated (and felt guilty) in my attempts to change her. We may have had a lovely few months/years together, but there likely would not have been a lifelong love affair.
I know she is excited about dinner tonight, as she already messaged me, “I’m ready to be dazzled. Are you ready, master chef?” I would like to have a lovely, relaxing night with her, as I’m sure she is anticipating the same. However, the only burning question I have is what kind of casual friendship will we have? I have mentioned that I felt we really connected/clicked, and I’m curious if she felt the same. While I have enjoyed, and would continue to enjoy, our hanging out and dinner “dates,” I would like to know her better than just a work friend that I hang out with. Not in a romantic sense, but I’d hope she’d drop her walls a bit so I can know her better. Obviously, being coworkers adds a risky layer because feelings could/would get involved; however, I’m not seeking a romance. I feel that I am a positive and calming influence in her life and I would like to continue to be. I’m just not comfortable doing without knowing her better.
And I realize things are in flux. She is a coworkers and is single and attractive, and she will inevitably meet suitors, date, and possibly enter into a relationship. And I may do the same as well. Also, I am working to find another job that takes me away from here, so I am hopeful that I land something soon.
I want to me more than just some work friend she occasionally hangs out with, but I don’t know if she’s willing to take that leap. The unknowing, and knowing what I think she may say, certainly added to my anxiety. Yet, as Anita said, I need those grey areas colored.
February 3, 2021 at 8:17 am in reply to: A date with a coworker felt like a bright spot in 2020 (and maybe it was)? #373965Spry_RyParticipantDear Anita,
Yes, I too do not tolerate grey areas. This relationship has seemed to exist in that realm from the beginning and that has certainly caused me some anxiety.
It occurred to me why I had such a gut-wrenching reaction when she said that she didn’t see a long-term potential for us over dinner last week. I had a relationship with someone years ago when I was stationed in Texas, and my relationship with her closely mirrored the one with my coworker. She too was very attractive, young, and seemingly an old soul. She was a neighbor at my apartment, and we’d met at the pool (I believe) when myself and a few friends were enjoying a summer day. The group ended up in my apartment to watch a movie, and she and I held hands under the blanket. Like my coworkers, she too held some traumas close and never really let me in. Then, like now, I wanted a relationship, but we existed more as friends with benefits. And like my coworker, she also tended to drink more than I thought was normal. While we would have moments of intimacy–both sexual and non-sexual–she always kept those walls up and never really let me in. She would disappear for days at a time, only to resurface like it was no big deal.
Then, like now, I thought that I could be a good influence in her life. (I worked a bit on my “savior complex” in counseling last year. Or the “Superman” complex as a former my ex-girlfriend called it. “You don’t have to fix everything; just listen to me and let me vent,” she’d say.) She also had friends there and her family was close by, whom she was very close to. We would often hang out at their parents liked us. (I think her mom appreciated that she had friends who were in the military and seemed like genuine, good guys.) It was one of the better times in my life: I had a few close friends, and we had a largely carefree time outside of work.
Then, I met someone else and decided it was best to distance myself from her. While I love her, I grew weary of the relationship. The up and down and back and forth. She had moved out of the apartment complex and down the road to another by then, and we grew more distant as she grew more reclusive. I was out with the new girl one night, and when I returned I had a message from the other girl on my answering machine. I do not remember exactly what she said, but essentially she said that she missed me and wished she could talk to me. I didn’t call her back and figured I’d call her in a day or two.The details are fuzzy and I’m not sure how I heard, but I received a call the next day that she was dead. A self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. A suicide on her 20th birthday. I was gutted to say the least and wracked with guilt. āWhat if I called her back that night?ā I thought. I kind of shut down after that. My new girlfriend was understanding and let me grieve. Unfortunately, the new girlfriend battled her own traumas, and I stayed with her for much long than I should have. (I, again, thought that I played a complimentary role in her life, and the sex exploratory and I experienced things I had not before.)
I think these experiences helped me to fortify my own walls. While I realized that loving someone isnāt enough if they do/will not let you in, I would not apply that knowledge in relationships. While I would love my partner, I never would truly let them know the real me. This somewhat explains why I am still without a long-term partner as I move towards my mid-40s.
While I stated that I see parallels to my coworker friend and the ex who committed suicide, I feel less like being her āSupermanā than I would have in the past (thanks to counseling). She is quite accomplished and largely independent, and I feel that she fears entering a relationship with someone after emerging from two long-term relationship herself. (She was married for a few years until last year, and I believe dated her previous boyfriend for a few years before. Perhaps between was when she dated the guy who was recently arrested for drugs, but I am not certain.) I think she was looking after her own heart when she sent me that message before our second date, which I had previously posted I believe:
I have a lot of fun with you and I really enjoy the time I spend with you. Donāt get me wrong we definitely get along great and I do enjoy talking to you, but Iām just dipping my toes back into dating, and Iām just not really sure that dating a coworker is the best choice for me right now. Iām new to my career and if things donāt work out that never seems to go well when you have to work together after. I just wanted to tell you up front before feelings got more involved and too much time went by. I like you and Iād be happy to keep hanging out. Itāll just have to be as friends.
I am certainly curious to see if she felt that connection I feel towards her. I believe that she felt something but fear and logic won over her heart–to include the fear of telling her parents she was dating someone close in age to them. Iād like to have her define a causal friendship. While I certainly would not turn down a friends with benefits-type relationship, that is not truly a goal with her. While I enjoy our dinner dates and the time we spend together, I am certainly prepared to have this transition to a friendly coworker-type relationship. That would be a bit more difficult for me, as we never really had that from the start. I will just have to get some grey areas colored and accept them for what they may be. This will not be easy as I will pine for more but I’ll have to accept things as they are, or push back if things move back into the grey area again. And I also need to continue to work to find another job and relocate.
We have dinner here tomorrow night, so I will post here on Friday.
Again, thank you, Anita.
Ryan
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