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MichelleParticipant
Hi Susan.
A tough life, my heartfelt congrats on your strength on surviving as you have – incredible strength, I am not at all surprised you are exhausted and have no idea where to go from here. After all, life so far has literally been head down, survival, get through it, right. For the first time in what must feel like forever you have the space to raise your head and say – so hang on a minute – what about me, what about what I want. Your life hasn’t been wasted – it’s given you strength – but it is time to use that strength for yourself, to look after you and put yourself first for a little while, I’d say.
What can help is to try to breakdown what would make the biggest difference to you first, as if you try and think about everything you’d like to change it can quickly just get overwhelming and you end up doing nothing. For example, is it the loneliness or the financial situation that is harder to deal with. Yes, despite all the legislation that says otherwise, it’s tougher to get a job when you are older when you haven’t been employed. What were your degrees in, what would you like to do? A lot of the bigger employers have “return to work” programs aimed at recruiting people like yourselves, it helps them bring diversity and different experience into their workforces. Worth seeing if anybody near you is doing anything like that. It’s also sometimes worth thinking differently and instead of simply looking for a different job, think about what you enjoy doing and see how you could make money from that, a lot of people make good money from their so-called side businesses, often more than their day jobs!
On the loneliness/socially awkward front, best way is to slowly reintroduce yourself into social situations, not expecting much from yourself but just be proud of yourself for showing up. It can be helpful to set yourself mini-goals if you are that way orientated, e.g. I will go to one event this month, next month I will go to two. It’s one of those things that you just have to practice and get back into the swing of, like riding the proverbial bike. If you get anxious about, think ahead about a few things to say and mostly just listen, be interested in others – it’s easier if you are shy and people generally love it!
You can also think about using your hard-earned experience of your second child to help others, you must have a lot of what worked/what didn’t type advise that would be worth sharing.
Hope that helps a little, sorry you are in a tough place – feel free to share more, we’re here to listen and help where we can.
MichelleParticipantHi JHK.
Sometimes I find your posts conflicting – and it’s really important to deal with reality only. I think it would be helpful to go into a couple of the lines above in more detail, if you are willing to try and explain more. I think it will help unearth what is going on and help you find a way forwards.
I just feel that friends should always try to keep in contact to know about each other well being to avoid drifting. This is another of those important areas where balance is crucial, the key to a healthy friendship and one which has crossed the boundaries into being too close, not letting each other breathe for fear of losing them. Now obviously the question is – how to tell the difference, right? For example, if I had a good friend who texted me every single day to see how I was – I would quickly become very very tired of that person and want some space. And I don’t think I’m unusual in that. After all, how tiring is that, the same questions each day, demanding a response seeing them getting anxious and more demanding if none is received. Whereas if I have a good friend who remembers when important things in my life are happening and checks in to see how they went – that’s wonderful, very supportive, healthy. Likewise if something exciting or terrible has happened to them, that’s a good time to share. You see the difference – one style is all about wanting to talk every single day, even when nothing to say, simply to establish contact. The other style is talking with a purpose, with something new to share. This is why really good friends can go years without talking and then meet up one day and dive straight into very intimate conversations. They don’t need to be in daily contact to maintain intimacy with each other and they trust in the strength of the friendship, not testing it, just knowing it’s there when needed or wanted. This is where you need to be brutally honest with yourself as the only way forwards in determining which sort of communication you are doing and the driver behind it. I suspect if you are honest, you are going to find at least part of it is your fear of losing her, losing your close relationship.
Do you want to share some of the kinds of conversations you have been having and I can help establish which type they are with you?
And curious – why are you smiling less at her when you meet at work? I can understand why she is smiling less but not why you are not smiling at her – are you still angry at her despite having cleared the air?
MichelleParticipantFirst – well done on finally going through with it. It was always going to be tough. Now get your stuff out into the RV pronto.
It is much crueler to go through this again and again with her – for both of you. You are doing the nicest thing you can by being clear with her – as in “yes, we are no longer together” whilst being supportive with “no, I am not kicking you out, you are not homeless”.
Stick with it – all habits take time to break. Only by changing this will your life change. Explain it clearly to the kids so they are not confused either.
Stay with it – well done.
MichelleParticipantMorning JHK,
I’m glad you have cleared the air between you both. Yes, everybody is different, that’s why it’s so important to learn the reality about people, not just who we imagine or hope they are or could be. Especially in relationships, romantic or otherwise, when one person wants the relationship to work more than the other does, it is not surprising to result in unequal effort and insecurity.
Why do you think you ask so many questions – what kind of questions are they? There are many different ways to have a conversation, it can be like an interrogation, demanding, looking for precise answers or it can flow easily, undirected, open, creating it’s own energy , bringing it alive, not killing it. A vast difference in how someone will respond to the two extremes, don’t you think?
Do you honestly feel you have both been trying to avoid each other or do you really just feel that she is trying to avoid you? If so, in what ways have you been trying to avoid her and why?
MichelleParticipantHey JHK,
Yeah, life is most certainly not a fairy-tale but then that’s what makes it so worth living, you can’t appreciate the good without feeling the bad too. All feelings have their place, not all of them need acting on but should be felt, recognised, considered as to what they are telling you and if that is true or helpful.
So I’m glad to hear you have cleared the air with her, how did it go?
It’s good you tried to give her space, not push to help. Though it’s interesting, everytime you write “I do x,y,z because I care about her” I get the opposite impression – the behaviour or action seems driven more by your feeling insecure about her, about her feelings towards you.
Yes, I would say you have some serious backing off to do if you want to salvage what you had or would like to have, be it friendship or romantic. She is not emotionally responsible for you, nor you for her. That’s why motivation on any action is so important – there’s a big difference between doing what’s best for the other person even if that isn’t what’s best for you – i.e. giving her more space, listening to her actual words, not what you hope they mean.
Have you thought about spending time on yourself, working through why you feel so insecure and unworthy?
MichelleParticipantMorning Tom.
Good to hear from you and glad it sounds like it’s worked out well.
Yeah – it’s always an odd feeling anyway when you get replaced, even when you are the one who’s chosen to move on. I know I’ve certainly felt it and if you’ve been somewhere a long time it can take a while to become less emotionally attached to the old job/place, even when you want to move on. It can also be hard to imagine anyone can do your old job as well as you did, even when you know logically you started in exactly the same place.
Seems unlikely they encouraged you on simply for the opportunity to get your job but I get it can make you feel just a little doubtful about their intentions at the time. Like you say, the important thing is you made the right decision for you so it doesn’t matter either way. Hope you are also feeling excited about starting your new opportunity and good luck with it all.
MichelleParticipantHey Sisi, no problem – glad it helped. Anita is expert on helping people through dealing with anxiety, among many other things so I’ll leave you in her capable hands there and will stop posting here to let the two of you work through it. Let me know if at some point you want some more practical job-related help, been there for sure!
MichelleParticipantHi JHK,
It may be, there are many things it could be – I’d still say the likeliest version is that she no longer sees you as a potential relationship, regardless of if she is ready or not. I think that her not being ready is more like your hopeful thinking, a way to not give up your wish to continue this relationship – more that, then the reality based on events/knowledge/listening to what you have said she does/does not do.
What do you mean by a love grinch – a new one to me? I think you mean you both consider yourselves unsuccessful in love?
Everyone needs space and especially so after anything mentally draining. But that’s sort of the main point here right – these interactions if they were part of a positive relationship would leave you both feeling energised, excited about arranging the next one, eager to talk more, get to know each other more. Instead they leave you tired and insecure and make her want to run away, declining your invites outside work.
I understand you will find it hard to give up on her after having invested so much in her emotionally. Think about it not as giving up, but as dialing back the intensity to see if you can have a healthy friendship. Start from there, don’t think about where it could or couldn’t go. Perhaps start to practise not overthinking and trying to second-guess her thoughts, just listen to what she actually says, what she does in reality – not what you would like them to mean or when you are feeling insecure, what you worry they could mean.
Am out a fair bit today, be back later.
MichelleParticipantHey Sisi,
Well – actually you can just leave after something is bad if you want to – and often that’s the sensible thing to do. I understand your Mum has set a strong example for you that you should tough it out like her, but honestly, it all depends on why you think should tough it out. If it was a job in an industry you really wanted to be in and that would be a stepping stone to a role in the company you did actually want, then maybe, yes, stick it out – for you have a goal in mind that you have decided is worth the short-term pain to you. But if it’s simply a summer job to earn some cash – why would you choose to stick it out, especially if other jobs are available which they usually are.
Yeah, learning to deal with negative vibes and unreasonable requests is part of learning how to navigate work for sure (sadly!) – but when you have options, why wouldn’t you take them? I suspect your Mum gets mad at you partly because you are doing what she is scared to do, leave and find something better. You know you can stick at a job when you want to, you were at MD’s long enough even when it was boring after all. The smart thing is knowing when it’s good for you to stick it out and when it isn’t.
If languages and arts are your thing – it’s worth asking around your local theatres, schools, tourist industry, galleries etc etc. You might just turn up at the right time, leave your details and they’ll think of you when something opens up. Print yourself some detail cards to leave with them etc.
In the meantime, if you really need the money, sure, stick it out whilst you look for something else but protect yourself from the negative vibe. What happens if you say no to the extra time at work – are you contractually obliged?? I can entirely understand it if you are expecting to work 6 hours and it turns into 10, unreasonable. Your choice to say no, I can’t do that, I have another commitment. The consequence may well be losing your job but that’s not the end of the world for you, right?
MichelleParticipantHey JHK,
To be honest, it does sound a little like unrequited love to me. I would say you are in the friend camp and a great crutch for her when she wants it – which doesn’t seem especially fair to keep you hanging on. She may have been interested at one point but certainly reads like her latest behaviour is not that of someone looking eager to push the relationship forwards right now. Seriously – a great way of finding out more would be to arrange that visit to that place you both wanted to go, see how she responds – is she super-eager to spend more time with you or difficult to pin down as to when?
It may be that if you give her some space, back off the heavy topics, spend more time on your other interests and friends – you will become more attractive to her again. It is worth doing anyway just so you aren’t spending all your time wondering, questioning and focusing purely on her. Broadening your life for a little while is a great way to get better perspective on what is/isn’t ‘true’.
I know it isn’t what you want to hear and especially after you have opened up after your last difficult time. Yes, it is sad how often nice guys ( and women ) get put into the friend-zone but trust me, they always find the right person for them eventually. Be proud you opened up again after being hurt previously and perhaps look at this one as another learning. Let’s see how it goes.
MichelleParticipantHey Sisi,
So, first up – changing jobs a lot as a student is not exactly unusual – it’s a time of trying things out, seeing what works/what doesn’t. So try to stop beating yourself up about that so much, it’s not going to have any affect on your career post college, if that’s one of your concerns. There’s absolutely no problem in changing jobs for good reasons – the trick is to work through understanding if the reasons are good for you.
It sounds like your first job at McDonalds you handled just fine until it became too boring for you, very understandable. And you sought out something new which worked really well to start with. So far so good, right. So was it the new co-workers or the boss that was the bigger reason why you stopped enjoying it so much? I ask since it was a job you say you loved, so it’d be worth understanding what became tough about it for you, tough enough that you didn’t want to overcome the problems. Did you dislike your new co-workers or do you struggle with some types of bosses?
Yeah, a lot of summer jobs suck and the need for money, especially in your early days, will often see you toughing it out – if you know it’s what you want to do. Not worth toughing it out for something you don’t want anyway. I had some great summer jobs and some were much more in the dull camp for sure, all are what you make of them and mostly a means to an end at that point in your life. Figuring out what causes your work stress triggers will help a lot in identifying what kind of roles and working environment you are likely to enjoy, both now and in the future post college. What are you studying, what are you hoping to get into when you finish – sometimes it is possible to get your summer job in the industry you are interested in, try it out so to speak. Else just knowing what kind of environment/people are best for you and then look for those. It’s also worth being aware that dealing with difficult people and situations is a just another basic life-skill you get tend to get better with as you get more experience. Dealing with bad bosses and situations/stress can be done, have had many both good and bad – you just develop different skills for dealing with them which means you then only leave your job when you want to – not when you feel you have to because you can’t cope.
Hope helps.
MichelleParticipantHi JHK,
Nothing wrong with a compliment, so long as given freely, honestly, without expecting anything back. Some people may find frequent compliments uncomfortable, again, best to judge if it’s getting too much by her responses. It gets easier, the more you see and know someone – but again, try to stay in the moment and enjoy your time with her as it can be easy to spend all your time staring and trying to figure out what she’s thinking…
Sorry to hear you’ve had a bad experience previously, most of us have, you are not alone there for sure, a normal part of trying things. It’s good you are brave enough to want to try again and understandable you are a little more cautious this time around. It can be useful to understand why the other girl rejected you to learn from the experience and move forwards from it, removing it’s power of fear.
Why do you think you check in on her more now than in the past? I would read this as your anxiety/insecurity about her has increased as you have spent more time together, not reduced. Do you think you sense she is pulling away from you, less interested in you than at the beginning? It can be a bit of a vicious cycle that, as one person pulls away to get some space, the insecure/anxious one chases harder, trying to keep the closeness/intimacy strong, trying to get validation from the other person that they are worthy – which ofcourse makes the person pull away more and so it goes on until often what the insecure one fears most will happen, the other person leaves them.
The only way to break the cycle, if that is what is happening, is for you to stop chasing, to reduce the seeking validation of your worth. Basically you need to believe and know you are worthy without her telling you so. This isn’t about not caring for her – but doing it in a way that makes her feel good about the experience, not in a way that makes her want to run away, have some space. Especially if she isn’t used to facing up to her problems and dealing with them, she isn’t going to be very receptive to being ‘forced’ to talk about them, even if you believe it’s the best thing for her. A different way would be to ensure she knows you are there as/when she wants to talk but to otherwise let her guide the pace of opening up. If she can see that not all your conversations are ‘heavy’, she will likely enjoy the experience more, want to engage in conversations again. Absolutely honesty and truth about views and opinions are great, as is being talkative – but again, try to think about her perspective on this and concentrate on topics for a while that aren’t to do with what problems you perceive she may have. Give her some space whilst being clear you are interested in her by arranging meet-ups and spending time talking together in a different way.
What do you think?
June 10, 2019 at 9:10 am in reply to: Trying to deal with anxiety and loss after relationship break up #298281MichelleParticipantAh – I just wrote a ton of stuff and lost it! Suffice to say I’m excited about your potential trip too and now feel the need to start planning out my next one!!
Granada end June has to be on your list…….it has the Alhambra ( wonderful moorish palace and gardens, amazing place ), giant park walkable from the city for outside space and many parks/squares in the city itself – plus just the best food/drink/bar scene, free tapas with every drink still and very friendly.
I’ve never found the language thing to be a real barrier yet, so long as you are happy waving your arms around, smiling a lot, feeling a bit foolish ( great practice at not caring what others think btw…. ) and learning a few basic “hello,goodbye,thankyou,beer please” phrases get you a long way. But you are reliant on being somewhere with either other travellers or ex-pats for any long conversation, barkeepers/tourist industry locals aside, who I’ve had some great chats with. Travel is awesome like that, you get all kinds of people with really interesting stories – makes it very easy to strike up conversations.
Travel insurance is a must single or not, health being the big one you want decent coverage on. Funnily enough, best gadget for single or not single people I’ve heard of – a door wedge. Instant peaceful night’s sleep. Safety is much like anywhere you visit, some areas are fine, some not so much and some you’ll want to get a taxi back late at night. But honestly, the more I travel the more you see just how over-hyped the news is, what an unrealistic picture it paints. Most people are so much much friendlier than here in the UK, they’re interested and helpful in the main, especially as you get out of the cities and big tourist hot-spots.
Medication I think your doctor either gives you prescriptions to take with you or just a load in advance but it’s something they are used to dealing with. You can still get most of the injections if you need them free on NHS.
It’s so cool to hear you talk excitedly about something, run with it whilst you can 🙂 Wanderlust is basically p@rn for travellers if you want to see awesome pictures and I’ll have a think through what may suit you!
Good on you.
June 10, 2019 at 8:55 am in reply to: Trying to deal with anxiety and loss after relationship break up #298277MichelleParticipantAh Shelby…how funny! North Wales is stunning – but very very wet most of the time, I’m feeling very lucky to have got in the few decent hikes that we have done. There’s lots of less physically demanding walks too if your back doesn’t do well on long hikes… But end June for a few days……can I just ramble on for a few mins about how awesome Granada is – home to the Alhambra, one of the most stunning moorish palaces and gardens, a huge park you can walk to from the city and the finest food/drink – did I mention you get free food with every drink……love it there……though may actually be getting too hot for you by then!
Cambodia was awesome, Bali & Tibet/Nepal still on my list. To be honest, the language thing really isn’t much of a barrier – so long as you are happy to wave your hands around, smile a lot and learn just a couple basic “hello/goodbye/thankyou/a beer please” I’ve got by pretty much everywhere I’ve been. You can get these cool picture books with things to point to – bizarrely simple idea but invaluable if heading way off the tourist track at all, though can’t imagine you’ll do that to start with.
Your idea on timing is smart. I started off thinking we’d do a grand year tour but actually am much happier doing 1-2-3 months at a time, coming back to see friends/family before heading off again. Insurance in necessary single or couple, especially for health stuff, that’s the coverage part that matters. One of the best things for single/any travellers is actually a simple door wedge – instant extra peace of mind when sleeping if the door lock’s a bit ropey. It’s funny, the more I travel, the more you realise how over-hyped so much of the news is into making everything seem scary. People are just generally way more friendly and helpful outside the UK too ( sorry UK! ) – think they appreciate tourists and just interested in people more. Medicines I think you can get your doctor’s to give you extra prescriptions to pick up whilst travelling/take with you. You can also get most of the injections you need for free on NHS still.
Ha – even I’m excited now – will have to start planning out my next big trip….! I’ll have a think more about what you might like – try out Wanderlust in the meantime, their pictures are just literally travel-bait….
MichelleParticipantHi JHK.
Exactly so – you will be able to tell through your meeting up & activities if you are enjoying the time together. And as you spend more time together or not, whether it’s developing into something romantic or staying friends. Just reading the body language, the looks, so much easier than by text for sure.
I think your 7:08 post was spot on btw – a lot of the behaviour/thoughts you describe here sound as though they come from you feeling insecure/anxious. There are many ways to help improve this, lots of good and inspiring reads on this very forum for sure. What do you think you feel insecure about – I get the sense you aren’t convinced you are worthy of her affections? And that’s why you feel the need to check so often, why you worry so much when apart/haven’t heard from her.
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