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Suzanne

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  • #365455
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear Anita.

    If given the chose between #2 or #1, everything inside me would choose #2. This is clearly the most impulsive choice. It is pretty much to chase thrills. In other words, if someone were to present #1 or #2 in front of me and I had a split second to choose, Iā€™d choose #2. But if someone gave me time to choose, Iā€™d still choose #1.

    And no, Iā€™ve never experienced #1. Currently experiencing #3. Please tell me, what does/did #1 feel like?

    Suzanne.

    #365405
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear Rose of Yellow.

    Thank you for sharing that story. It really helps put things in perspective. I always thought if I loved a man so much I wouldnā€™t care if I had to take care of him in his old age. But that story shows you can end up angry with your life choices. Consider it a cautionary tale.

    And yes, like your boss, I craved the attention of an older man. But really, who doesnā€™t want attention?

    So what is the age gap ā€œlimitā€ which you can both can be partners? 15 years? 10 years? 5 years? I have considered having an age gap friendship, preferably with a woman. I like to think of it like a lioness with her cub. Sheā€™d protect me whilst I grew physically/emotionally. But I digress.

    I asked this question with Anita: is it okay to be in an age gap relationship if itā€™s a one night stand/hookup/fling? I know older people sleep with younger people to capture the youth they lost. Personally, I want this relationship to gain the time/life experiences Iā€™ve yet to encounter. And yes, the older person would want to financially abuse the younger person. Yes, there are so many cards stacked against the relationship. So weā€™re simply not compatible, no matter how hard we try? So we shouldnā€™t bother forming a relationship? I know itā€™s delusional, but I consider his ā€œbaggageā€ to be more of an asset than a liability. It adds ā€œcharacterā€ to the man. Personally, Iā€™d rather look at a yellowing piece of paper with tears and ink stains /mistakes on them than a plain white sheet of paper.

    Look, I know Iā€™m crazy, but even I know what Epstein did was sick. šŸ¤¢ And on that note, just here to remind you that he didnā€™t kill himself. In all seriousness, I know you and Anita are head and shoulders over me when it comes to life experiences. I owe a lot to you two. Plus, I canā€™t wait to find more about myself. Though I know it will be scary, it will be just as exciting. I know trying to ā€œreliveā€ the father-daughter relationship Iā€™ve always wanted is not ideal. What is ideal is ā€œinner core valuing of self, your self love, and spiritual principles.ā€ Then the ideal partner will show up.

    Yes, having a broken partner will lead to a broken relationship. But in all honesty, every time you push (i.e. talk against an age gap romance) I keep pulling (i.e. want to be in one even more). But really, Iā€™m just stubborn in nature. I shouldnā€™t throw your advice out the window. I know you two want me to not make mistakes. Ultimately, the mistakes I make will lie on me. Thatā€™s just life, I guess. šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø

    #365404
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear Anita.

    Once again, thank you for your sage advice.

    ā€œcharacter isnā€™t words; character is actionsā€ is another way of saying, ā€œhe/she says it like it is.ā€ Other expressions that are similar are,ā€a sharp shooterā€ or a ā€œstraight talker.ā€

    So #2 (love bonding) is the more responsible path? And itā€™s suppose to be the most rewarding path? But the trade off is that it will be the most challenging of the two? What if #1 (the thrill) is pursued, but in a one night stand/hookup/fling? Is that okay?

    Clearly, Iā€™m seeking #2 because Iā€™m lacking #1. But in all honesty, the thought of an age appropriate relationship is kind of boring. Something inside me would rather choose #3 (loneliness/void) instead of #1 (love-bond).

    Other than being with a much older man, I canā€™t really think of other ways to fill this void. (Started reading about codependency, as suggested by Rose of Yellow. Thereā€™s an upcoming chapter on how to break free from codependency.) But in the meantime, how do you fill that void? And what does a trusting relationship look like? I must admit, I havenā€™t been able to trust ever since. Thatā€™s why bonds have been weak ever since. And how do you re-experience the love you lost? Or is it gone forever?

    Please note: he was NEVER physically abusive to me or my mom. Plus, I donā€™t think heā€™s been emotionally abusive. I remember being scared of him when I was younger. Heā€™s a dominating man who must control others/the environment heā€™s in. Think ā€œmy way or the highway.ā€ I was scared of talking back/rebelling. I was basically scared of rejection. Because in caveman times, the outcast was most likely to die from the environment and/or being unable to gain resources. So the only coping mechanism Iā€™ve thought of was to keep quiet. Since then, Iā€™ve pretended to act like everythingā€™s okay. Iā€™ve been in hiding ever since.

    It was really a case of abandonment. Being unable to ā€œdivorceā€ (pun intended) his past life with his present life. I took his past mistakes personally and somehow felt responsible for them. I felt our relationship was a sham. It was based on lies and secrecy. And naturally, I was mad. I wish he would talk about his past. Thereā€™s no point in hiding. Plus the truth comes out in the end. I know this sounds dramatic, but it felt like the Truman Show. Especially when the nurse tells Truman ā€œeverythingā€™s a lie.ā€ Just typing this, it still hurts to this day.

    But with everything in life, there was a positive. One plus side would be the that the image of the perfect father was shattered. I stopped idolizing him. I finally saw him as a person. It made me prioritize trust more than anything in relationships. It forced me to be self reliant. And if I do end up having children, I would try to be upfront about everything that happened to me.

    Suzanne.

     

    #365327
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Hello Rose of Yellow.

    Please take your time with your posts on Tiny Buddha. Your home life should be your #1 priority. On that note, thanks for taking the time out to answer the post. It means a lot. Reading ā€œCodependency for Dummiesā€ right now. Itā€™s EXTREMELY helpful. Actually helped answer a lot of the questions in my head. Canā€™t wait to read the Melody Beatty book.

    What you rattled off the top of your head are the reasons we want validation and control. Trust me, Iā€™m no exception (ha ha). Yes, there are definitely things we can control within our world. But it is most certainly naive to think we can do the same with people and the rest of the world. In a self help book, someone said something like, ā€œfix yourself before you fix the world.ā€ Just trying not to throw stones in my glass house (ha ha). Please donā€™t feel discouraged. The path to self growth seems so exciting. ā˜ŗļø

    Trying to let go of all of lifeā€™s hang ups. So what is this ā€œSerenity Prayerā€ you mention of? Seems really hippy dippy, in all honesty (ha ha). Thatā€™s cool, though. Do pretty much anything to reach ā€œradical acceptance.ā€ My mantra from now on will be: focus on what you can control, not what you canā€™t. And a friend of Eckart Tolle is a friend of mine (ha ha) šŸ˜†. To be honest, anything from him is a gift from the gods. No wonder Oprah loves him so much!

    The quote sounds like what every spiritual guru talks about when being ā€œpresent.ā€ To be honest, being in the ā€œhere and nowā€ is one of the most daunting things a person can do! Like everything in life, itā€™s certainly easier said than done. Still yet to accept that the only thing that can be changed is ourselves. On another topic, thatā€™s awesome CODAā€™s now doing zoom classes! Do you have to pay/subscribe/sign up to anything?

    You have every right to feel hesitant about my ā€œideal relationshipā€. Then again, anything considered ā€œidealā€ does stem from irrationality and/or delusion. And yes, no partner can be perfect all the time. Maybe Iā€™ve got to lower my expectations? šŸ˜‚So a fantasy is fine as long as itā€™s in our heads. So where do we draw the line between fantasy and having standards for a partner? So Iā€™ll have to set aside my ā€œfantasy manā€ for now and focus on ā€œradical acceptanceā€. Plus, thatā€™s awesome youā€™re married to youā€™re fantasy man! Turns out they do exist. As cliched as it sounds, you really sound like a ā€œmatch made in heaven.ā€ (Ha ha.) But really, what are ā€œneedsā€ as opposed to ā€œwantsā€ in a relationship? Are they different from ā€œshoulds and mustsā€? So excited to go on this learning journey. Hopefully itā€™ll answer the real question in life: what exactly are ā€œneedsā€?Who wouldā€™ve thought the path to a better future started on a Tiny Buddha forum? šŸ˜‡ Your words mean a lot. We all want you to reach your destination towardsĀ self growth.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 6 months ago by Suzanne.
    #365326
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear anita.

    No one has ever talked about emotions that way before. What you said was truly insightful. Thank you. So to clarify: thoughtsāž”ļøfeelingsāž”ļøactionsāž”ļøbehaviorāž”ļøcharacter. Feel free to correct any errors mentioned in the post.

    Recently heard that ā€œcharacter isnā€™t words; character is action.ā€ It sounds like the gist of what you mentioned previously.

    The morals of the sexual relationship arenā€™t good, to be honest. The emotions behind this would be anger, sadness, revenge. Yes, thereā€™s the thrill of ā€œgoing against the grain.ā€ To do something taboo. But thereā€™s still the element of love, bonding, trust. For a man to appreciate someone despite their flaws. To be adored would be the most wonderful feeling.

    Yes, itā€™s sick for a man to take advantage of a vulnerable, sad girl. Itā€™s wrong for him to take her innocence, her virginity, her youth. But in all honesty, thereā€™s an element of wanting to be taken advantage of. Wanting to feel validated. For a moment, she can receive a love sheā€™s never been given. Yes, this girl clearly has self esteem problems. Yes, this girl doesnā€™t value herself. Sheā€™s simply trying to get by.

    Yes, heā€™ll use her for her body and leave her high and dry.

    Guess youā€™re right. He simply isnā€™t the ā€œman of my dreams.ā€

    ā€œDaddy issuesā€ is defined as someone (usually a female) who has experienced physical or emotional abuse and/or abandonment by a father or a father figure. This leads to her trying to find a father figure. This can be through sex/forming relationships with older men, alcohol/drug problems, entering abusive relationships and having low self worth in general.

    Hopefully this post will have some value in it.

    Suzanne.

    #365168
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear anita.

    Thank you for opening up about your past experiences. Just hearing about it, you wouldnā€™t wish it on anyone. Hopefully time has allowed the healing process to be more effective. It feels wrong to be attracted to older men. But it still feels so… irresistible. I canā€™t help it. It would hurt to be taken advantage of. To feel scars no one can see. Consider it a cautionary tale. And hopefully karma will work its magic on those who harm innocent people.

    One step at a time, these ā€œdaddy issuesā€ will melt away some day. And weā€™ll tackle the ā€œreal issuesā€ together. (Is it only codependency or is it more than that? šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø)

    Suzanne.

    #364392
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear anita.

    Again, sorry Iā€™m not clear with my writing.

    And thank you for being part of the thread. I know a 39 year age gap is concerning. Yes, thereā€™s something wrong with a man older enough to be a grandfather sleeping with a woman young enough to be his granddaughter. Itā€™s sick. Itā€™s wrong. But the idea of something ā€œwrongā€ is kind of hot. To do something/be with someone that is taboo/forbidden is kind of a turn on.

    And best wishes to you on your life path. Wherever it leads you.

    Suzanne.

    #364383
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear anita.

    Will sure give it a try. ā€œI would like to be in a relationship with a middle aged man.ā€ This middle aged man will be, well, middle aged. Has to be at least 40. And no older than 60. Preferably my momā€™s age or older.

    Heā€™ll be the ā€œsilver fox.ā€ You know, hair all gray or all white. Ā He can have the ā€œsalt and pepperā€ look. Can be bald/balding. To be honest, I donā€™t care. He can be clean shaved/have stubble/have a beard. Not too fussed about it. And I donā€™t care if heā€™s wrinkly and/or sagging. To be honest, itā€™s kind of hot. Iā€™m pretty sure heā€™ll be taller than me, as most men are. Have to admit, he will look similar to my dad.

    Heā€™ll be a gentleman. Someone polite. He doesnā€™t have to be ā€œusefulā€ around the house. He doesnā€™t have to be a handyman or be hyper masculine. Heā€™ll be kind, sensitive, understanding. Someone who understands boundaries. Of course, I want him to be able to stand up for me when Iā€™m unable to. To be honest, Iā€™ll treat him like an ā€œemotional crutch.ā€ Kind of like how a child treats a toy. Someone whoā€™ll never talk back. Someone whoā€™ll never disagree with me. Some whoā€™ll never hurt me. Someone Iā€™ll turn to when I feel overwhelmed. And most importantly, heā€™ll never leave me.

    Our relationship will resemble something of a mentor and protĆ©gĆ©e. Heā€™ll teach me ā€œthe ropesā€ and my job is to overcome them. Whether it is work, life, social, or whatever. Heā€™s stable (both emotionally and financially). He will be my ā€œrock.ā€ And Iā€™ll give him excitement. Bursts of color heā€™s been missing. Show him how to love again. How to have fun. How to learn new things. But Iā€™m not trying to change him. I will love him no matter what.

    And Iā€™m sure youā€™re wondering about the sex. Of course, itā€™ll be great. It doesnā€™t have to be wild. He will teach me how to be better. Someone who knows what heā€™s doing. He wonā€™t treat me like a ā€œconquest.ā€ Like how most young guys treat young women. Heā€™ll appreciate me. He wonā€™t take for granted being with a much younger partner. Weā€™ll be physically close, even without sex. Lots of warm hugs. Just being close, in general. Dancing together will be a romantic gesture. Looking into his eyes and seeing everything. Being in his arms will feel like I have the power of the entire universe within me. When Iā€™m with him I feel everything, but in a good way. Love, joy, anger, confusion, sadness, disbelief, etc. At the end of the day, I want to feel adored. I want to be admired.

    #364380
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Yellow Rose. Wow, what you wrote was really profound. Didnā€™t realise codependency was staring at me right in the face.

    Have to accept that the ā€œbrokenā€ older men can only fix themselves. Still, I have a deep desire to ā€œfixā€ whatā€™s wrong with them. Yes, I have to accept they wonā€™t give me the love Iā€™ve always wanted. Have to stop wanting to ā€œfixā€ broken people. Thinking Iā€™ve ā€œsavedā€ them will make me feel like a ā€œsaviour.ā€ So how can someone love another person ā€œwhollyā€? Yes, Iā€™m delusional thinking that once weā€™ve fixed each other, weā€™ll be happy forever. I know Iā€™ll have to start working on myself. (Already reading Tony Robbins, ha ha. Got any other suggestions?) And one day, Iā€™ll attract an ā€œemotionally healthy partnerā€ (whatever that looks like). Ā Must confess I want to control all the small things because I feel powerless to control the big things. One day Iā€™ll ā€œknow better and do better.ā€ Hopefully thereā€™ll be such a small void to fill that I wonā€™t need to partner with someone to make me feel whole. Definitely food for thought.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by Suzanne.
    #364377
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Hello Yellow Rose.

    Oh, goodness me. What you mentioned was a real wake up call, for me and my mom. Again, I have no idea what my dad has lost that he needs to control us. When you say say ā€œcontrol is abuse,ā€ it sounds so simple and straightforward. But the more I think about about it, the more confusing it becomes. Donā€™t want to sound dramatic, but it makes you question your entire existence. If we donā€™t need control, what do we need? Freedom? Independence? I have to admit, Iā€™ve felt inadequate many times. Not sure if it is because of the control or just self esteem in general. Iā€™ve felt Iā€™ve kept giving and giving. Only to feel more and more inadequate. Now that you mention it, I feel no matter what I do, heā€™ll still be unsatisfied, for whatever reasons.

    Thanks for mentioning the authorā€™s name. Will certainly check out her work. Once everythingā€™s over (šŸ¦ šŸ¤§šŸ¤’šŸ˜·), might one day to a CODA.

    So how do you ā€œfind our own emotional equilibrium and wellness?ā€ And how do you know when youā€™ve achieved it?

    Itā€™s fine for you to judge. After all, weā€™re all judgmental! (Ha ha.) Itā€™s obvious he struggles inside. From what, we donā€™t know. We still all wish he finds some inner peace. He refuses to see a therapist. And yes, only he can fix himself. Still, we he would open up more. Itā€™s normal to feel shame, guilt, etc. Wished he didnā€™t have to drink to cope with his issues. Yes, wish heā€™d join the path towards self improvement like everyone on Tiny Buddha. Still, on the bright side, learned so much from writing a post on this forum. šŸ™‚

    Will learn more about Al Anon later on. Currently know theyā€™re aligned with CODA.

    You know I want to change, for the better. Like everyone, I want to reach ā€œemotional maturity and emotional wellnessā€. I have to accept that my parents have chosen their paths in life. Have to stop focusing on them and start focusing on me. Hopefully weā€™ll reach a ā€œgood lifeā€ (whatever that looks like). Iā€™ll find someone whoā€™ll be my ā€œequal.ā€ Someone not controlling and someone age appropriate. Of course, donā€™t love yourself TOO much that youā€™ll end up self absorbed.

    #364369
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    Itā€™s okay to find my writing difficult to understand. Like most people these days, Iā€™m fluent in GRAMMARLY (ha ha). Iā€™ve been told I need to improve my writing. So now should be a good place to start.

    Allow me to simplify.

    1. ā€œMy dad wouldnā€™t be considered a ā€˜broken man.ā€™ā€ If you ask any person walking on the streets if heā€™s stable or not, most people would say heā€™s got a good head on his shoulders. People that know him would clearly tell heā€™s not perfect. (But then again, who is?) But heā€™s like ā€œmost people.ā€ By that I mean he laughs, he cries, he gets angry, confused, etc.

    2. ā€œIā€™d really be the one more focused on his flaws than himā€. His marital history is something Iā€™m clearly focused on. To be honest, I donā€™t think about his drinking that much. And I focus on how much he controls my mom. To be honest, the more I think about it, the less I focus on his bad personality traits. And more I think about how he really is a decent guy.

    3. ā€œI like the idea of ā€˜broken menā€™ given the chance to open up and love againā€. He doesnā€™t have to have been married before. Or have children from his past relationships. Itā€™s that most middle aged men are divorced and have children with an ex wife. Ā  Sadly, more people have had failed relationships than successful ones. While they function just fine, inside they have feelings of hurt and regret. So it would be nice to heal the hurt inside. And yes, I would like to be in a relationship with a middle aged man.

    Suzanne.

    #364131
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Hi anita,

    My dad wouldnā€™t be considered a ā€œbroken man.ā€ Iā€™d really be the one more focused on his flaws than him. I like the idea of ā€œbroken menā€ given the chance to open up and love again.

    #364122
    Suzanne
    Participant

    Hello Yellow Rose. Thanks for the quick response. And bigger thanks for the book recommendation. Itā€™d be great to know who wrote the book, for future reference.

    From reading your response, it would be fair to say weā€™re a codependent family. I knew it wasnā€™t normal to give away so much of your freedom for security, even when I was younger. So yes, our relationship is love without trust. We love flawed people who acknowledge their flaws. Iā€™ve yet to accept for parents for who they are. Iā€™m not sure if Iā€™ll ever come to terms with that. Sounds like changing them will be futile. I know they had the best intentions for me when they kept the secret, but like in all things, the truth does come out in the end. Is control not love, period? Or are there exceptions? So all of humanity is flawed, no matter how much self improvement is involved?

    Iā€™m not entirely sure how to forgive, in all honesty. Iā€™m struggling on how to accept people for their flaws and to not focus on them. Iā€™ve yet reached emotional peace. It is tempting to have a boyfriend to ā€œfixā€, someone we can model a relationship off our relationship with our father.

    Hopefully, inner peace will be achieved. The people in my life will be for the right reasons, not from deep-seeded issues.

    One step at a time, weā€™ll get there. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by Suzanne.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by Suzanne.
    #364103
    Suzanne
    Participant
    Dear anita,

    Thanks for responding so quickly! Like most people, I focus on the things I donā€™t have, as opposed to the things I do have. So Iā€™ve been fixated on this fractured relationship for 7 years.

    Itā€™s not the fact heā€™s been married many times, itā€™s the fact he wonā€™t be upfront about it. We wish we could have a more honest relationship. Plain and simple, I donā€™t trust him.

    In general, Iā€™m a quiet, reflective person, for better or for worse. So they (my parents) wouldnā€™t notice anything different about me. My mom once said I use to be ā€œreally happyā€ and be less introverted. Imagine she thinks it has to do with adolescence in general and is oblivious to what happened.

    The ā€˜daddyā€™s girlā€™ image is really a facade, something we wish was sincere. Iā€™m Ā attracted to older, broken men ever since. Older men represent ā€œA ā€˜second chanceā€™ to love and care for someone again. To forgive someone for their past failed relationships, to be a daughter and a lover ā€œ.Ā  Not necessarily marry, just to be in a long term relationship with him. Despite their flaws, I will love him wholly as he will love me wholly, despite my flaws.

    When I heard the news, I felt lonely, felt I had no one to talk to. Iā€™m still a ā€œreal quietā€¦ usually quietā€ girl. But most of the time, Iā€™m solitary by choice, though I do feel lonely sometimes. My parents do love me, but if I were to tell them this news, they will not love me the same. I imagine we can still have a relationship based on mutual respect, but that ā€œloveā€ will be gone. So, yes, there will be rejection. I was ā€œpuzzledā€, but not shocked, considering my dad is an attractive man. The news made sense, allowing the ā€œdots to be connected.ā€ Yet I felt ever more confused. Not to mention undergoing puberty in general.

    But youā€™re right, it was alarming. And guessing Iā€™ve fixated on it, as Iā€™ve felt not truly loved ever since. And the love of an older man will help fill that void that was lost in both of us.

    If my mother came out with this news, Iā€™d probably try and find a mother figure, in the form of an older, broken woman. And probably have my dad as an afterthought. Iā€™d be angry at my mother and fixate on her. So yes, a father figure would be the closest thing to love I could imagine.

    Overall, itā€™s mostly correct, and thank you anita for the guidance given.

    Suzanne.

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