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August 24, 2020 at 2:40 pm #365455
Suzanne
ParticipantDear Anita.
If given the chose between #2 or #1, everything inside me would choose #2. This is clearly the most impulsive choice. It is pretty much to chase thrills. In other words, if someone were to present #1 or #2 in front of me and I had a split second to choose, Iād choose #2. But if someone gave me time to choose, Iād still choose #1.
And no, Iāve never experienced #1. Currently experiencing #3. Please tell me, what does/did #1 feel like?
Suzanne.
August 24, 2020 at 4:56 am #365405Suzanne
ParticipantDear Rose of Yellow.
Thank you for sharing that story. It really helps put things in perspective. I always thought if I loved a man so much I wouldnāt care if I had to take care of him in his old age. But that story shows you can end up angry with your life choices. Consider it a cautionary tale.
And yes, like your boss, I craved the attention of an older man. But really, who doesnāt want attention?
So what is the age gap ālimitā which you can both can be partners? 15 years? 10 years? 5 years? I have considered having an age gap friendship, preferably with a woman. I like to think of it like a lioness with her cub. Sheād protect me whilst I grew physically/emotionally. But I digress.
I asked this question with Anita: is it okay to be in an age gap relationship if itās a one night stand/hookup/fling? I know older people sleep with younger people to capture the youth they lost. Personally, I want this relationship to gain the time/life experiences Iāve yet to encounter. And yes, the older person would want to financially abuse the younger person. Yes, there are so many cards stacked against the relationship. So weāre simply not compatible, no matter how hard we try? So we shouldnāt bother forming a relationship? I know itās delusional, but I consider his ābaggageā to be more of an asset than a liability. It adds ācharacterā to the man. Personally, Iād rather look at a yellowing piece of paper with tears and ink stains /mistakes on them than a plain white sheet of paper.
Look, I know Iām crazy, but even I know what Epstein did was sick. š¤¢ And on that note, just here to remind you that he didnāt kill himself. In all seriousness, I know you and Anita are head and shoulders over me when it comes to life experiences. I owe a lot to you two. Plus, I canāt wait to find more about myself. Though I know it will be scary, it will be just as exciting. I know trying to āreliveā the father-daughter relationship Iāve always wanted is not ideal. What is ideal is āinner core valuing of self, your self love, and spiritual principles.ā Then the ideal partner will show up.
Yes, having a broken partner will lead to a broken relationship. But in all honesty, every time you push (i.e. talk against an age gap romance) I keep pulling (i.e. want to be in one even more). But really, Iām just stubborn in nature. I shouldnāt throw your advice out the window. I know you two want me to not make mistakes. Ultimately, the mistakes I make will lie on me. Thatās just life, I guess. š¤·āāļø
August 24, 2020 at 4:12 am #365404Suzanne
ParticipantDear Anita.
Once again, thank you for your sage advice.
ācharacter isnāt words; character is actionsā is another way of saying, āhe/she says it like it is.ā Other expressions that are similar are,āa sharp shooterā or a āstraight talker.ā
So #2 (love bonding) is the more responsible path? And itās suppose to be the most rewarding path? But the trade off is that it will be the most challenging of the two? What if #1 (the thrill) is pursued, but in a one night stand/hookup/fling? Is that okay?
Clearly, Iām seeking #2 because Iām lacking #1. But in all honesty, the thought of an age appropriate relationship is kind of boring. Something inside me would rather choose #3 (loneliness/void) instead of #1 (love-bond).
Other than being with a much older man, I canāt really think of other ways to fill this void. (Started reading about codependency, as suggested by Rose of Yellow. Thereās an upcoming chapter on how to break free from codependency.) But in the meantime, how do you fill that void? And what does a trusting relationship look like? I must admit, I havenāt been able to trust ever since. Thatās why bonds have been weak ever since. And how do you re-experience the love you lost? Or is it gone forever?
Please note: he was NEVER physically abusive to me or my mom. Plus, I donāt think heās been emotionally abusive. I remember being scared of him when I was younger. Heās a dominating man who must control others/the environment heās in. Think āmy way or the highway.ā I was scared of talking back/rebelling. I was basically scared of rejection. Because in caveman times, the outcast was most likely to die from the environment and/or being unable to gain resources. So the only coping mechanism Iāve thought of was to keep quiet. Since then, Iāve pretended to act like everythingās okay. Iāve been in hiding ever since.
It was really a case of abandonment. Being unable to ādivorceā (pun intended) his past life with his present life. I took his past mistakes personally and somehow felt responsible for them. I felt our relationship was a sham. It was based on lies and secrecy. And naturally, I was mad. I wish he would talk about his past. Thereās no point in hiding. Plus the truth comes out in the end. I know this sounds dramatic, but it felt like the Truman Show. Especially when the nurse tells Truman āeverythingās a lie.ā Just typing this, it still hurts to this day.
But with everything in life, there was a positive. One plus side would be the that the image of the perfect father was shattered. I stopped idolizing him. I finally saw him as a person. It made me prioritize trust more than anything in relationships. It forced me to be self reliant. And if I do end up having children, I would try to be upfront about everything that happened to me.
Suzanne.
August 22, 2020 at 12:13 am #365327Suzanne
ParticipantHello Rose of Yellow.
Please take your time with your posts on Tiny Buddha. Your home life should be your #1 priority. On that note, thanks for taking the time out to answer the post. It means a lot. Reading āCodependency for Dummiesā right now. Itās EXTREMELY helpful. Actually helped answer a lot of the questions in my head. Canāt wait to read the Melody Beatty book.
What you rattled off the top of your head are the reasons we want validation and control. Trust me, Iām no exception (ha ha). Yes, there are definitely things we can control within our world. But it is most certainly naive to think we can do the same with people and the rest of the world. In a self help book, someone said something like, āfix yourself before you fix the world.ā Just trying not to throw stones in my glass house (ha ha). Please donāt feel discouraged. The path to self growth seems so exciting. āŗļø
Trying to let go of all of lifeās hang ups. So what is this āSerenity Prayerā you mention of? Seems really hippy dippy, in all honesty (ha ha). Thatās cool, though. Do pretty much anything to reach āradical acceptance.ā My mantra from now on will be: focus on what you can control, not what you canāt. And a friend of Eckart Tolle is a friend of mine (ha ha) š. To be honest, anything from him is a gift from the gods. No wonder Oprah loves him so much!
The quote sounds like what every spiritual guru talks about when being āpresent.ā To be honest, being in the āhere and nowā is one of the most daunting things a person can do! Like everything in life, itās certainly easier said than done. Still yet to accept that the only thing that can be changed is ourselves. On another topic, thatās awesome CODAās now doing zoom classes! Do you have to pay/subscribe/sign up to anything?
You have every right to feel hesitant about my āideal relationshipā. Then again, anything considered āidealā does stem from irrationality and/or delusion. And yes, no partner can be perfect all the time. Maybe Iāve got to lower my expectations? šSo a fantasy is fine as long as itās in our heads. So where do we draw the line between fantasy and having standards for a partner? So Iāll have to set aside my āfantasy manā for now and focus on āradical acceptanceā. Plus, thatās awesome youāre married to youāre fantasy man! Turns out they do exist. As cliched as it sounds, you really sound like a āmatch made in heaven.ā (Ha ha.) But really, what are āneedsā as opposed to āwantsā in a relationship? Are they different from āshoulds and mustsā? So excited to go on this learning journey. Hopefully itāll answer the real question in life: what exactly are āneedsā?Who wouldāve thought the path to a better future started on a Tiny Buddha forum? š Your words mean a lot. We all want you to reach your destination towardsĀ self growth.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 6 months ago by
Suzanne.
August 21, 2020 at 11:31 pm #365326Suzanne
ParticipantDear anita.
No one has ever talked about emotions that way before. What you said was truly insightful. Thank you. So to clarify: thoughtsā”ļøfeelingsā”ļøactionsā”ļøbehaviorā”ļøcharacter. Feel free to correct any errors mentioned in the post.
Recently heard that ācharacter isnāt words; character is action.ā It sounds like the gist of what you mentioned previously.
The morals of the sexual relationship arenāt good, to be honest. The emotions behind this would be anger, sadness, revenge. Yes, thereās the thrill of āgoing against the grain.ā To do something taboo. But thereās still the element of love, bonding, trust. For a man to appreciate someone despite their flaws. To be adored would be the most wonderful feeling.
Yes, itās sick for a man to take advantage of a vulnerable, sad girl. Itās wrong for him to take her innocence, her virginity, her youth. But in all honesty, thereās an element of wanting to be taken advantage of. Wanting to feel validated. For a moment, she can receive a love sheās never been given. Yes, this girl clearly has self esteem problems. Yes, this girl doesnāt value herself. Sheās simply trying to get by.
Yes, heāll use her for her body and leave her high and dry.
Guess youāre right. He simply isnāt the āman of my dreams.ā
āDaddy issuesā is defined as someone (usually a female) who has experienced physical or emotional abuse and/or abandonment by a father or a father figure. This leads to her trying to find a father figure. This can be through sex/forming relationships with older men, alcohol/drug problems, entering abusive relationships and having low self worth in general.
Hopefully this post will have some value in it.
Suzanne.
August 20, 2020 at 4:09 am #365168Suzanne
ParticipantDear anita.
Thank you for opening up about your past experiences. Just hearing about it, you wouldnāt wish it on anyone. Hopefully time has allowed the healing process to be more effective. It feels wrong to be attracted to older men. But it still feels so… irresistible. I canāt help it. It would hurt to be taken advantage of. To feel scars no one can see. Consider it a cautionary tale. And hopefully karma will work its magic on those who harm innocent people.
One step at a time, these ādaddy issuesā will melt away some day. And weāll tackle the āreal issuesā together. (Is it only codependency or is it more than that? š¤·āāļø)
Suzanne.
August 10, 2020 at 5:34 pm #364392Suzanne
ParticipantDear anita.
Again, sorry Iām not clear with my writing.
And thank you for being part of the thread. I know a 39 year age gap is concerning. Yes, thereās something wrong with a man older enough to be a grandfather sleeping with a woman young enough to be his granddaughter. Itās sick. Itās wrong. But the idea of something āwrongā is kind of hot. To do something/be with someone that is taboo/forbidden is kind of a turn on.
And best wishes to you on your life path. Wherever it leads you.
Suzanne.
August 10, 2020 at 4:46 pm #364383Suzanne
ParticipantDear anita.
Will sure give it a try. āI would like to be in a relationship with a middle aged man.ā This middle aged man will be, well, middle aged. Has to be at least 40. And no older than 60. Preferably my momās age or older.
Heāll be the āsilver fox.ā You know, hair all gray or all white. Ā He can have the āsalt and pepperā look. Can be bald/balding. To be honest, I donāt care. He can be clean shaved/have stubble/have a beard. Not too fussed about it. And I donāt care if heās wrinkly and/or sagging. To be honest, itās kind of hot. Iām pretty sure heāll be taller than me, as most men are. Have to admit, he will look similar to my dad.
Heāll be a gentleman. Someone polite. He doesnāt have to be āusefulā around the house. He doesnāt have to be a handyman or be hyper masculine. Heāll be kind, sensitive, understanding. Someone who understands boundaries. Of course, I want him to be able to stand up for me when Iām unable to. To be honest, Iāll treat him like an āemotional crutch.ā Kind of like how a child treats a toy. Someone whoāll never talk back. Someone whoāll never disagree with me. Some whoāll never hurt me. Someone Iāll turn to when I feel overwhelmed. And most importantly, heāll never leave me.
Our relationship will resemble something of a mentor and protĆ©gĆ©e. Heāll teach me āthe ropesā and my job is to overcome them. Whether it is work, life, social, or whatever. Heās stable (both emotionally and financially). He will be my ārock.ā And Iāll give him excitement. Bursts of color heās been missing. Show him how to love again. How to have fun. How to learn new things. But Iām not trying to change him. I will love him no matter what.
And Iām sure youāre wondering about the sex. Of course, itāll be great. It doesnāt have to be wild. He will teach me how to be better. Someone who knows what heās doing. He wonāt treat me like a āconquest.ā Like how most young guys treat young women. Heāll appreciate me. He wonāt take for granted being with a much younger partner. Weāll be physically close, even without sex. Lots of warm hugs. Just being close, in general. Dancing together will be a romantic gesture. Looking into his eyes and seeing everything. Being in his arms will feel like I have the power of the entire universe within me. When Iām with him I feel everything, but in a good way. Love, joy, anger, confusion, sadness, disbelief, etc. At the end of the day, I want to feel adored. I want to be admired.
August 10, 2020 at 4:03 pm #364380Suzanne
ParticipantYellow Rose. Wow, what you wrote was really profound. Didnāt realise codependency was staring at me right in the face.
Have to accept that the ābrokenā older men can only fix themselves. Still, I have a deep desire to āfixā whatās wrong with them. Yes, I have to accept they wonāt give me the love Iāve always wanted. Have to stop wanting to āfixā broken people. Thinking Iāve āsavedā them will make me feel like a āsaviour.ā So how can someone love another person āwhollyā? Yes, Iām delusional thinking that once weāve fixed each other, weāll be happy forever. I know Iāll have to start working on myself. (Already reading Tony Robbins, ha ha. Got any other suggestions?) And one day, Iāll attract an āemotionally healthy partnerā (whatever that looks like). Ā Must confess I want to control all the small things because I feel powerless to control the big things. One day Iāll āknow better and do better.ā Hopefully thereāll be such a small void to fill that I wonāt need to partner with someone to make me feel whole. Definitely food for thought.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by
Suzanne.
August 10, 2020 at 3:48 pm #364377Suzanne
ParticipantHello Yellow Rose.
Oh, goodness me. What you mentioned was a real wake up call, for me and my mom. Again, I have no idea what my dad has lost that he needs to control us. When you say say ācontrol is abuse,ā it sounds so simple and straightforward. But the more I think about about it, the more confusing it becomes. Donāt want to sound dramatic, but it makes you question your entire existence. If we donāt need control, what do we need? Freedom? Independence? I have to admit, Iāve felt inadequate many times. Not sure if it is because of the control or just self esteem in general. Iāve felt Iāve kept giving and giving. Only to feel more and more inadequate. Now that you mention it, I feel no matter what I do, heāll still be unsatisfied, for whatever reasons.
Thanks for mentioning the authorās name. Will certainly check out her work. Once everythingās over (š¦ š¤§š¤š·), might one day to a CODA.
So how do you āfind our own emotional equilibrium and wellness?ā And how do you know when youāve achieved it?
Itās fine for you to judge. After all, weāre all judgmental! (Ha ha.) Itās obvious he struggles inside. From what, we donāt know. We still all wish he finds some inner peace. He refuses to see a therapist. And yes, only he can fix himself. Still, we he would open up more. Itās normal to feel shame, guilt, etc. Wished he didnāt have to drink to cope with his issues. Yes, wish heād join the path towards self improvement like everyone on Tiny Buddha. Still, on the bright side, learned so much from writing a post on this forum. š
Will learn more about Al Anon later on. Currently know theyāre aligned with CODA.
You know I want to change, for the better. Like everyone, I want to reach āemotional maturity and emotional wellnessā. I have to accept that my parents have chosen their paths in life. Have to stop focusing on them and start focusing on me. Hopefully weāll reach a āgood lifeā (whatever that looks like). Iāll find someone whoāll be my āequal.ā Someone not controlling and someone age appropriate. Of course, donāt love yourself TOO much that youāll end up self absorbed.
August 10, 2020 at 3:20 pm #364369Suzanne
ParticipantDear anita,
Itās okay to find my writing difficult to understand. Like most people these days, Iām fluent in GRAMMARLY (ha ha). Iāve been told I need to improve my writing. So now should be a good place to start.
Allow me to simplify.
1. āMy dad wouldnāt be considered a ābroken man.āā If you ask any person walking on the streets if heās stable or not, most people would say heās got a good head on his shoulders. People that know him would clearly tell heās not perfect. (But then again, who is?) But heās like āmost people.ā By that I mean he laughs, he cries, he gets angry, confused, etc.
2. āIād really be the one more focused on his flaws than himā. His marital history is something Iām clearly focused on. To be honest, I donāt think about his drinking that much. And I focus on how much he controls my mom. To be honest, the more I think about it, the less I focus on his bad personality traits. And more I think about how he really is a decent guy.
3. āI like the idea of ābroken menā given the chance to open up and love againā. He doesnāt have to have been married before. Or have children from his past relationships. Itās that most middle aged men are divorced and have children with an ex wife. Ā Sadly, more people have had failed relationships than successful ones. While they function just fine, inside they have feelings of hurt and regret. So it would be nice to heal the hurt inside. And yes, I would like to be in a relationship with a middle aged man.
Suzanne.
August 7, 2020 at 10:27 pm #364131Suzanne
ParticipantHi anita,
My dad wouldnāt be considered a ābroken man.ā Iād really be the one more focused on his flaws than him. I like the idea of ābroken menā given the chance to open up and love again.
August 7, 2020 at 6:52 pm #364122Suzanne
ParticipantHello Yellow Rose. Thanks for the quick response. And bigger thanks for the book recommendation. Itād be great to know who wrote the book, for future reference.
From reading your response, it would be fair to say weāre a codependent family. I knew it wasnāt normal to give away so much of your freedom for security, even when I was younger. So yes, our relationship is love without trust. We love flawed people who acknowledge their flaws. Iāve yet to accept for parents for who they are. Iām not sure if Iāll ever come to terms with that. Sounds like changing them will be futile. I know they had the best intentions for me when they kept the secret, but like in all things, the truth does come out in the end. Is control not love, period? Or are there exceptions? So all of humanity is flawed, no matter how much self improvement is involved?
Iām not entirely sure how to forgive, in all honesty. Iām struggling on how to accept people for their flaws and to not focus on them. Iāve yet reached emotional peace. It is tempting to have a boyfriend to āfixā, someone we can model a relationship off our relationship with our father.
Hopefully, inner peace will be achieved. The people in my life will be for the right reasons, not from deep-seeded issues.
One step at a time, weāll get there. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
August 7, 2020 at 4:43 pm #364103Suzanne
ParticipantDear anita,Thanks for responding so quickly! Like most people, I focus on the things I donāt have, as opposed to the things I do have. So Iāve been fixated on this fractured relationship for 7 years.
Itās not the fact heās been married many times, itās the fact he wonāt be upfront about it. We wish we could have a more honest relationship. Plain and simple, I donāt trust him.
In general, Iām a quiet, reflective person, for better or for worse. So they (my parents) wouldnāt notice anything different about me. My mom once said I use to be āreally happyā and be less introverted. Imagine she thinks it has to do with adolescence in general and is oblivious to what happened.
The ādaddyās girlā image is really a facade, something we wish was sincere. Iām Ā attracted to older, broken men ever since. Older men represent āA āsecond chanceā to love and care for someone again. To forgive someone for their past failed relationships, to be a daughter and a lover ā.Ā Not necessarily marry, just to be in a long term relationship with him. Despite their flaws, I will love him wholly as he will love me wholly, despite my flaws.
When I heard the news, I felt lonely, felt I had no one to talk to. Iām still a āreal quietā¦ usually quietā girl. But most of the time, Iām solitary by choice, though I do feel lonely sometimes. My parents do love me, but if I were to tell them this news, they will not love me the same. I imagine we can still have a relationship based on mutual respect, but that āloveā will be gone. So, yes, there will be rejection. I was āpuzzledā, but not shocked, considering my dad is an attractive man. The news made sense, allowing the ādots to be connected.ā Yet I felt ever more confused. Not to mention undergoing puberty in general.
But youāre right, it was alarming. And guessing Iāve fixated on it, as Iāve felt not truly loved ever since. And the love of an older man will help fill that void that was lost in both of us.
If my mother came out with this news, Iād probably try and find a mother figure, in the form of an older, broken woman. And probably have my dad as an afterthought. Iād be angry at my mother and fixate on her. So yes, a father figure would be the closest thing to love I could imagine.
Overall, itās mostly correct, and thank you anita for the guidance given.
Suzanne.
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