@Danny

Yeh, you made mistakes but you are doing what most guys would never do. Stepping up and taking accountability in person. So you can at least forgive yourself and work on learning to do better. We can’t change our past but we can change our future. No one can say for sure if she is going to be part of your future but the only chance you have is by actually not self-pitying and taking it upon yourself to make those improvements. Even if you do not get the second chance this may be the most humbling thing like it has been for my ex.

Many men will take the easy way out and text,

“I’m so sorry…please forgive me… and you deserve more”

They will never face you so it feels insincere we never actually get anything from it and is just another smack in the face and sign of how they haven’t actually learned if they had they would confront it like a man. She will respect you a lot for that if she is how you described her. I feel she would also not ignore your request given how good-natured she is but whatever you do, do not play on that.

I have lost trust in my ex we were on and off for over 4 years. It is an entirely different situation even though I drew parallels. The main thing is how far you crossed her boundaries and that will determine everything. I really do not think you should even broach getting back. Just apologise sincerely to her and ask her if she can remain in your life in any way. The ball is in her court, whatever she wants to do respect it, be selfless let her go if deep down you know you can not change your ways to be better for her. Let her find happiness if you will not meet her needs. Don’t take advantage of her kind nature and win her over then hurt again.

A simple text asking her how she is and if she is able to talk further. Then take it from there.

@Shelbyville don’t worry about it. Congratulations on your promotion. I knew you had the skills and just needed to believe. I hope you manage to get a break and enjoy the downtime.

@Danny I know I was harsher than the others but that’s  because I can’t be entirely impartial as I was used too. I’m glad @Kkasxo and @Shelbyville replied in depth and gave you some comfort. We can all use that alongside a healthy dose of reality. Good luck. I hope ‘B’ experiences some of the pain and weight lift. If you are given the chance make amends in person. Take her something small, a gesture you remember personal to her. Pay for coffee. Don’t over do it, but it will help. Apologising over text, letter etc. never brings about complete closure to the chapter that passed. There’s been times I’ve bit my lip to keep the peace and communication open because I hate hurting loved ones but in person everything poured out, the truth, it was raw and much needed way to really process those swirling thoughts and feelings. He needed to hear it and feel it too to realise the true consequences of his actions and accept accountability.

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Sammy.

Ermm @Danny one thing I promised I’d never do is ignore someone who asks for help directly.

Reading your message was hard because I can draw parallels with how you treated ‘B’ and it kind of resurfaced my own pain.

I believe no one is beyond redemption. We can all make bad decisions. You at least are owning up to your erroneous ways. I wish another contributer @Tim was able to respond to you man to man. I think you would learn and benefit a lot from his experience.

Asking ladies for advice is always going to be hard as there will be a natural bias. With me I can’t sit here and molly coddle so some of what I say will be real talk but with no intent to be spiteful and objective as possible. The other ladies @Kkasxo and especially @Shelbyville are very non judgemental so maybe they’ll be able to offer more sympathy and a different light on your situation.

Firstly, I understand you got hurt no one deserves to be cheated on let alone betrayed by a best friend. I’m sorry you went through that, I can imagine the pain especially when you love some one and it turns out they didn’t love you back in the same way. I hope you have now dealt with this pain because your brother is very wise!

Being hurt by no means allows you to then go and hurt other women! THAT WAS A JACKASS MOVE! I’m coming to learn that’s very common for males when dealing with 1st heartbreaks. Why can’t you keep it in your trousers and reflect sooner?!You need to really reconsider the advice you take because it’s obvious it’s been bad and because you are insecure you are impressionable, so must have done it for clout/impress the lads/to fit in. Maybe even reassess who you hang with if that’s how they believe women should be treated. It’s despicable. Please don’t say boys will be boys because then you need go f yourselves and not hurt genuine people with infantile behaviour!

The fact you feel remorseful at least shows there’s a conscience there and some moral compass. I don’t want to make you feel shittier.

Secondly, I’ll be balanced there are some women who do what you said. They use a nice guy for expensive gifts and feign affection.  But doesn’t seem you were nice guy being taken advantage of. You trying to get even by then benefitting from sex makes you just as bad. If you have a mutual agreement then that’s fine you’re consenting adults but anyone doing sexual favours with expectation of a gift in return or money is no different to prostitution in my eyes. It definitely isn’t love!!

I can see why you have lost respect for certain women but that doesn’t mean you label every single woman as a user.

You misjudged ‘B’ due to immaturity and she clearly wasn’t like that. From what you wrote ‘B’ showed no signs of that behaviour and seemed to have been genuinely invested in you and I think you let your own fears and insecurities sabotage it. The fact she never resorted to sleeping with you to impress you shows she values herself. You let your own insecurities convince you that she was a cocktease or after your money etc.

You really disrespected her and it appears you took advantage of her good nature and used her as an emotional support/crutch.

As a woman to feel afterwards you were used by someone you genuinely respect/love is incredibly degrading and painful. I’ve experienced that with my ex who I still have love for but have lost trust and respect in him. Even the most confident of people can be left feeling questioning their self worth after spending time with someone toxic. I’m afraid that’s what you were at that time.

It could be one of two things;  she wanted to see the best in you, she wanted to believe that she could heal you. Women who are good hearted and loyal will want to ‘fix you’ they stand by you when everyone else deserts you but sometimes in the process unbeknownst to themselves, they end up breaking themselves too.

Or she could have been fragile, suffering very low self esteem and you took advantage of her vulnerability.

I think the fact she didn’t sleep with you points towards the fact she was a very nurturing person and you took advantage of that kind heartedness and good nature. A person with very low self esteem would not uphold their values because they have no boundaries they break them all. I know many women who think by sleeping with a unavailable guy she’ll finally secure him and get him to commit. The fact she didn’t do that is telling and I too believe you’ve cocked up big time.

I think that’s why you have such regret because you see you had a rare gem but treated it equivalent to crap on your shoe. You clearly didn’t value it.

Of course she would be upset and want an explanation for your behaviour she is a human being with emotions not a shiny object. You should have given her full closure. She clearly believed in you and if you shared stuff with her then you were building an emotional connection so of course she must have got attached, like you said you awakened feelings in her with no intention to commit. That’s cruel. You must have really left her with a lot of questions and its those questions which we want answers to that cause the pain to worsen.

This is my view only, @Shelbyville and @Kkasxo can add their thoughts hopefully but I think it takes a real man to take accountability. It’s a step in the right direction and part of growing up. You owe her an apology for sure and it can go a very long way as receiving one has done for me.

Something i learned in addiction recovery because i became reliant on alcohol when my ex mistreated me. Its applicable to relationship as love is a like a drug. Step 8: Make a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. Step 9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them.

So never do it over text that’s feeble and insincere if you mistreated her you apologise in person. Also you need to let her dictate the pace. Don’t apologise to gain something for yourself i.e. underlying belief you are owed a 2nd chance. It’s been 10 months so a lot could have changed. If you get in touch make it clear it is to apologise. Respect her and be prepared to hear some harsh words.

The rest I don’t know if it will work out, I don’t know if your reasons are selfish or if your motives are sincere. If you really want it then work on yourself and be that man she could see and believed in. Improve, grow and change otherwise apologise at least and let her be with someone who would value her.

@Kkasxo thanks for your quick reply, you are so kind. You are right each person will in the end do what they feel but I’m big believer in learning and not repeating mistakes. My heart was leaning towards softening and giving my ex a chance but after reading Danny’s post that pain I went through felt very sharp and fresh again. I don’t know what to do. I will wish him happy birthday and maybe leave it at that for now.

Do you feel by you and Mr A being so comfortable and available with each other you are hindering yourself? Like co dependent? I feel my ex and I were. If you feel like that initial love is gone and you are like an old couple then would it not be better to have a clean break? So you can experience new love without a safety net? I feel even if my ex and I don’t reconcile but he stays on the radar so to speak I’ll never really learn to be strong for myself. I’ll never do myself justice in being what I’m capable of alone without that safety net. We deserve more than remnants of old love or just feeling comfortable. We deserve to feel more than okay? Someone who keeps you feeling alive by pushing you to be bolder and better each day. Love is an action.

That’s why I’m stuck and I do believe we should be kind to ourselves but not to the point where we become motionless. Which is why i personally like to gain awareness from others experiences to prevent falling into another unnecessary difficulty. So confused. Maybe choosing the harder more challenging option to confront is the right way. For me that would be to drop the familiarity (him) and move on to find someone one day who will actually love me for me and want to grow together.

You’ve been incredibly brave and strong though to have handled so much adversity! Thank you for giving me help appreciate it ever so much especially without @Shelbyville and @Tim being able to correspond xx

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Sammy.

Hi @Shelbyville it’s good to know you’re okay! When you go quiet it’s hard to tell if you are overwhelmed with your anxiety and feeling like I’m draining to reply to /busy with work. I kind of worry because I think I relate to you a lot so have a virtual bond so I worry if you’re doing okay. Maybe I need help? Haha!

Congratulations!!! That’s a reflection on your skills and talent, if a newbie has been chosen to be boss. Well done! Are you thrilled or just wanting to run because of the added pressure?

Anyway you have a long weekend off so switch off and enjoy your time with your bf what do you do for downtime? Does it feel good to say that, after all you’ve endured -new BF? You said you wanted someone who spoils you, shows you they think you are the bees knees and doesn’t take you for granted. He’s showing you that, so stop shying away, you deserve it. You have someone here who is telling you they want you, isn’t that what we all want someone who shows us they love us for us, so don’t RUN! Embrace the expression, your ex never said I love you. Everyone deserves to hear that and when someone is feeling it they will not not say it!

It’s great you feel so comfortable with each other. I’m happy somehow he has done a complete u turn from what we all were thought and I’m happy I was wrong about him!

There’s no point you worrying about the future. It’s early days so whilst you are lucky to see each day so regularly, do what you enjoy and you’ll gather if he is genuinely what you want out of a relationship.

Thanks for your views on my ex its so good to get perspective. I still haven’t told my bestie. Trying to own it and appear sensible to my F&F at least.. on here I can be unashamedly honest. That’s the reason I signed up to express the things that need to be outed otherwise what’s the point if you have to censor yourself on anonymously too?

You made an interesting point about Tim but it’s not about how he needed to contact me first like Tim for it to hold weight. I know I contacted him but I’m not going to reciprocate playing games, I’m not going to think with pride or ego and say because he never contacted me first it’s an automatic dismissal. You know as well as me, feelings are complex things to face and he took a huge step in taking accountabilty and I commend him for that.

What is a valid point about Tim’s situation and probably why they are successful is that they were never together in the same way and reunited like we did with our exes. You and I have been past that elusive 2nd chance, we gave too many. Also Tim and her both felt something but didn’t enter a fully fledged relationship instead they or should I say his partner did what very confident, clever and wise individuals do, parted way’s at the right time, with unconsumed feelings, before giving into chemistry. Leaving space for if something was to happen it would happen on the right terms, right intentions that emotional bond was never severed in the way ours was. He was smart enough to fix up because he knew she was worth a fight.

And that is what stops me running away with the idea of a “happy ending”. I have grown up myself, I want better for myself, It’s just too late. Too much has happened, if we were to reunite the afterthought with every touch and sleeping with him would be difficult. That niggling thought, I wasn’t enough despite all we shared, intimacy is huge thing for me and as a woman it’s a gate and once someone has been let through that gate but subsequently left then that bitter feeling of it wasn’t enough or feeling used is hard to shrug off. I don’t know if I’m making any sense.

Speaking of attachment issues I think we definitely ended up with a co dependency of sort. How do I handle this without the extra headache and conflict? His family I’ll always have room for in my heart but not in the same way as before I guess.

@Lucie thank you so much, I’m here to listen to you too. I’m sorry I’m no help with PTSD or attacks but anything else you wish to share I’ll always attempt to answer x

Hi Anonymous,

I don’t know if you will ever read this but I noticed this forum was quiet and I did not want you to ever feel ignored. A lot of what you described I have experienced. There’s a forum created by Shelbyville in the relationship section, that’s helped so many, maybe you can read that or post there if you need advice/listening ear. You’re not alone, do not give up, I wish you happiness 🙂

@Sammy x

• This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Sammy.

@Shelbyville

You know what Shelby, you’re right. I’ll never know if he had conscious knowledge of what he was doing to me. However, he actually confronted his mistakes and apologised in person. You reap what you sow, when you hurt someone who was good to you or anyone for that matter, a sincere apology is always made in person, not just via a call or text. That’s how you make real amends by taking accountability by looking at the person you’ve wronged in the eye and being humbled. Anything less as a human is just insincere and cowardly.

He stepped up even if it was 7 months too late, I will always care about him because that’s part of my nature and as immature as he was, I now need to put my ego aside and forgive him completely as he apologised in person. He asked me if I’d truly forgive him and at this very moment, I do. Tim did probably the equivalent and used the ladies he encountered but by taking culpability directly in person he was able to get atonement and most likely it allowed the ladies like me to let go of any pain they were hanging onto. Hence why Tim is a well-balanced individual now and getting good karma. So I hope my ex can become that too.

The meeting gave me the opportunity to answer the swirling questions and tie up loose threads in my head, it confirmed beyond the chemistry, I was over him and wanted better for myself, that is huge progress for me. If he had been selfish and not made attempts of contact via his sister, I do wonder how long it would continue to consume me.

The alcohol would probably have lured me whenever the thoughts became too much but now I have peace, I’m getting to a place of self-control and even if I decide to socially drink, I don’t think it will ever be to this extent. I’m quite happy being sober for now though, I’ve dropped a few pounds too. Thanks, Shelby,  you’ve helped me to let go of that last bit by forgiving him.

One of the major takeaways from this has been that if I ever dare to take a leap back into finding love. I will not settle for anyone. I will be willing to walk away from someone who doesn’t show through his actions he is crazy about me, willing to spoil me and be extra. I want a confident man who knows what he wants and understands my needs equally. I want what I give. No more breadcrumbs.

I will make a conscious choice to not allow myself to instinctively be attracted by the stereotypical “bad boy” who always just wants passion and nothing deeper. A confident mature man who is looking for a mutual deeper connection, not a narcissist or immature boy who feels he needs to play these mind games.

No more games. The ones who are extra used to make me squirm but that’s because I’m understanding now it’s more to do with how I feel about myself, now I know these are the good ones who might be extra initially but through the duration of the relationship when the honeymoon phase wears off will be loyal and balance out. Whereas the wishy-washy/hot and cold sort is just a mind fuck.

Although I did everything in my being to make that relationship work,  I can’t blame him for ME not having the self-worth and confidence to call it myself and walk away. I need to accept that as my problem and learn to not repeat the mistake in the future.

Wow. I feel so so much better and lighter! You are such a good sounding board. I really don’t understand how you let Martha overpower you, you’re intelligent, non-judgemental, kind, loyal great work ethic, self-aware (maybe too much!) Those are the few things I’ve picked up from our correspondence in person you must be even better, any guy should be lucky to have you!

It’s good you’re taking the legally entitled breaks. You got the job because they saw potential. You got the job because you passed rigorous assessments so start to feel the confidence in your ability more. If you did it yesterday. You can do it again. You can’t doubt yourself because these corps will show ruthlessness and replace you. The job market is too unsteady to make rash decisions to quit even though I’m a big advocate for being happy in the job you do, it takes up a huge amount of hours of your life. Think smart. At least you’re not silly and thinking of throwing in the towel solely for a partner like someone did! Cough Tim cough, he gave up his job and moved for his ex :p. I miss your wise words @Tim. Could have done with a male perspective to add to Shelbys sterling advice..but I hope you are OK!!

It’s good the tablets have calmed things down for you. You sound much better. The way things are headed I think the company I work for has approved us to WFH until next year possibly up to spring. I hate that! I love being around and bouncing off others in the office. I had a new colleague join us who was amazing and she really made me feel better. A ray of sunshine, so rare! Being at home can get lonely on top of that the Covid restrictions!!

Enjoy it, most likely this bubble will be there for some time yet so that means you have months to be together, get to know each other deeply, and can WFhis, that’s good as your relationship will be past its infantile stage and much more serious. So by then, I think if things do change you’ll feel more confident. Also spending this much time together daily is a lot and hasn’t caused issues, so that’s great! Is he spoiling you and bringing you chocolate and a hot water bottle for your hormones! I hope he spoils you and treats you special. Tell me more about him now that your anxiety is not making you doubt him.

Has lockdown affected you much from seeing family and friends?

Contact with my ex is a hard one, I know being pals is not an option. I’m clear I don’t want anything but I care about him and I just don’t get how people cut out people so easily, naturally with time comms would decline, going cold turkey without wishing HNY or HB is weird to me as for me to be with someone or have them in my life means I value them. How did you keep friends with your other exes? Was it because they never were serious as the ex you started the thread about? x

• This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Sammy.