Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
ravi_zimmerfanParticipant
You are right. Coincidentally I just came across this quote of Einstein today ā āThe significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.ā I guess I need to move up the level of thinking first indeedā¦ as evidence points out Iām still right there. But Iāll do my best to understand and co-operate. š Thanks again.
Honestly speaking, I never felt Jerry was cruel to me or treated me badly. Yes there were a few times when she too got angry (only recently), but itās a very understandable human reaction and absolutely nothing compared to how much she had to put up with me. I created those gifts hoping to make her happy and seeing her joy, making her understand that here is someone who genuinely loves her and to whom sheās very specialā¦ special because of her virtues which make her such a wonderful and sweet person (because she has this insecurity issue and sometimes told me that she feels nobody except her parents cares for her). I do admit I hoped she could feel how much I love her in that wayā¦ but I didnāt intend it in a selfish manner as such (sounds like an oxymoron, I know). Worth mentioning here, I remember when my obsession was growing, I used to keep telling her āI love you, youāre special to meā every other moment and she told me not to say it, saying that those things arenāt spoken in words but expressed in action so the other person feels them.
And yesā¦ she was indeed significantly afraid of her family finding out about me. I too dropped the issue of gifts and meeting her after a while acknowledging that, but the thing is I could not stop thinking about how she meets her cousin brother, my brain showed me images of them hugging and kissing each other. No matter how much my rational side told me that she has genuine reasons for not meeting me, I could not get over her meeting and being intimate with that guy. I know itās cheap of me and I cannot forgive myself for it.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by ravi_zimmerfan.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantOK Anita. Thanks a lot. I’d just like to know if it’ll be ok for me to message her after this realization… and what changes can be done to the message I wrote.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantAnita, I do not want to abandon anything but what can I say if it appears that I never cared for Jerryās feelings? I donāt deny that I was a foul mouthed and insensitive jerk, I hurt her and in those particular flashes of anger I indeed forgot about her feelings and point of view. Itās not a special thing for her only but whenever I lost my temper with my parents or other friends, it was exactly the same. Its not that I stopped caring about their feelings. If I did not care for Jerryās feelings then why would I have done my best to make up to her after it, wrote poems for her, gifts on New Year, stayed up all night to prepare her birthday gift even when sheās not talking to me, started posting here on this very thread since March? I donāt deny that I am selfish in wanting to be back with her again, but more than that I wish she has a happy and successful life with her loved ones, whether or not I am with her. If I can, I would always do anything for her even if I can never be with her again, even if I get no credit whatsoever for it. It pains me to say it, but I mean it.
Iām sorry. You see what Iām like, you can imagine how much she had to put up with me all these years. If there indeed is an opportunity to change myself into someone worthy of being with her, by fixing my flaws, Iām all for it.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI donāt know what to say if itās clear that I donāt love herā¦ that I want her selfishly for myself and as an object and tool of pleasure. Maybe its best that I leave her then so that people who deserve to be with her can do so. I’m nothing but a selfish, conniving thug after allā¦ to the extent of lusting for her and treating her as a tool of pleasure too, and lying about it here. Her sister is right after all. Sorry for all the trouble I caused and thanks for all the help.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantReading this, my belief that I no longer am a good person (or ever was) is more confirmed. In my histrionics, selfishness and goodness knows what more, I did more damage than anybody else. I know it. She never was like this before and for her becoming like this, I know nobody but me is responsible. I donāt know how I can be considered a good or loving person after seeing how much damage I did to her.
Answering your questions, thinking from her point of viewā¦ Jerry always prized her relation with me. To the extent that she was willing to put up with so much just to maintain the bond. She told my friends that she loves me and never wants to lose me. She asked me to promise to be with her always. She felt she could count on me to be a humble and loving brother to her, always. When she found out about my feelingsā¦ she felt most shocked and betrayed, for reasons weāve discussed. And afraidā¦ because she knew that if her family ever found out, it would be disaster beyond imagination. She discussed with her sister and decided that my feelings are not something that can be eradicated so easilyā¦ and therefore she now has no choice but to choose between me and her family. And her sister hated me for my actions and let me have it, without showing any of Jerryās restraint or mercy. I hope Iāve been able to analyze correctly somewhat.
I love Jerry and I want toā¦
1) Comfort her and make up for all the pain I caused her. Show that I understand what she has undergone, genuinely regret it and I have been doing my best to change myself for her
2) Help her understand that I never stopped loving and caring for her
3) Assure her that I would never do anything that puts her or her reputation at risk. That I would get rid of my feelings if only to be with her, even in an inferior relation, because nothing is more important to me.
4) Let her know that I am always there for her, as she asked of me. And I always will be.I hope it doesnāt sound selfish. I tried my best to look at it from her POV firstly.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantYou are very right regarding that, Anita. Iāve always accepted and confessed that she was extremely soft, gentle and forgiving. Nobody else wouldāve put up with so much atrocity from meā¦ not even my own family. Nobody but me is responsible on that front. I tried my best to make up to her and make her happy after the initial incidents last year. But this possessiveness issue totally ruined everything. I donāt know if I can ever fully make up to her for that. I just hope the pain I myself have been suffering from almost 5 months can serve as some humble penace.
I donāt deny that there are enormous social/familial expectations for Jerry (or probably any girl) in the Indian society. When she was too frightened to accept even a physical gift from me or the possibility of meeting me someday, that becomes more important. Iāve always had a feeling that under her exterior anger, sheās actually afraid. Afraid of what exactly, Iāve not been able to put my finger on. You voiced my suspicions. That said I still am hurt by her sisterās words because I never meant ill for Jerry in that manner, not that I have any right to defend myself when I know how much wrong I myself have done. I felt sheās going happily about her life because I saw her running our Facebook page, posting on our forum and other things we once used to do together. I could be wrong of course.
My question is how to proceed from here. I have promised her that Iāll never let my feelings come between us and keep our bond platonic onlyā¦ but she doesnāt believe me (for good reason). What can I do, honestly? Put my promise down in writing and sign it in blood? Carve it with a knife on my arm? Honestly, I am willing to do anything just to have her back.. to make up for everything I did. No matter how wild or unimaginable, Iāll do it for her.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantMy updated message:
*****I know you donāt want to talk to me and I know how fallen I am in the eyes of you and your sister now. You are sweet to deny it, Jerry, but you know itās true and I understand why. I donāt know whether youāll reply or read this message, or delete it after a glance. Iām messaging you because my exams are over at last, and this is something I have been wishing to say for long. I donāt feel repeating what weāve said before is of any use. I accept that I am nobody to consider myself above social rules, and in that context I accept that I have done wrong. I know you donāt like these things and thatās why I tried to keep my feelings from you and confessed only to 2 mutual friends. If it still means I transformed from a humble and caring brother into a monster, then I accept that I am one. But God knows that if thereās anything I have never done, it is stopping caring for you, disrespecting you or thinking inappropriately of you. I admit I have lost my temper over petty issues, behaved badly with you, even stopped talkingā¦ but my temper has never ended with me not regretting it. I was so touched by your last message, āthough he hurted me with the bad words he used, Iāll pray for him and always think good only for himā, I promised to change myself and Iāve made every effort to stop using bad language and losing temper. Because I genuinely respect and care for you, always.
The above issue aside, I can only hope you understand that I never lusted for you or thought inappropriately of you, Jerry. My love was always based on respect for you as a person and your virtues which make you who you are. I accept that you loved me as a brother only and never expected this from me, and felt so betrayed. Iām sorry for everything you had to go through because of me. But if someone is doing their best to make up to you after five months, I wish you could see that their underlying motivation is sincere, and not lust or bad intentions. I donāt know about anything else, but I miss you. I miss you and our bond every day and every moment. There has not been a single day from 7th March when Iāve had a single moment of peace. I have been told to remain happy with all the others who call me brother. But you know better than me that no relation can ever take the place of another. And nobody can ever take your place in my life either, Jerry. Thatās how it has been and how it always will be. Iām not asking for any special place in your life, and I have no right to request anything from you. I wanted to acknowledge and accept my faults which Iāve thought about in these months, and which I accept that you were right about and I am wrong. I donāt know what difference my regret can make, but itās the least I can do and I wish to do so.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantAnita – thanks a lot for the advice. I’m making a few changes to my message and reposting here after reading your post. Please see if it’s okay to send to Jerry.
Livelovelifeeleni – Thanks a lot for the kind words. I’m very grateful. Sadly, if we cannot be together again, then those happy memories will stab me like a knife every day and haunt me to the grave. I cannot just take them as a learning step and move on. That’s just my nature.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantTo be specific, hereās the conversation I had with her and her sister (condensed version):
Sister – Heyā¦ my sister has a message for you. She does not want to continue this bond anymore as itās not brotherly.
Me – Please tell her Iām ready to do keep it a bro-sis bond only if thatās all acceptable to her.
Sister ā But how can she trust you to keep your word and keep it a brotherly bond only from now on? Itās easier said than done.
Me ā Iām willing to do anything to preserve our bond.
Sister ā To the extent of having the chutzpah to call her sis again? Youāll sink so low?
Me ā You donāt understand. I never meant any harm, she just means a lot to me.
Sister – We did not expect this from you. My sister trusted you, she genuinely felt you cared for her as a sister! Do you have any idea how much your deeds affected her?
Me ā I never meant anything wrong! Just because I had some feelings, doesnāt mean I stopped caring for her. Is even having feelings bad?
Sister ā YES! It is WRONG! It is BAD! Not expected! We did not expect you to transform from a humble and caring brother into a bloodthirsty monster. No good person in the Indian culture ever behaves like this, romantically loving a girl after calling her his sister. I know now that the Internet is a dangerous place due to monsters like you who wear masks and deceive innocent girls and exploit them. The other girls who call you brother need to beware, because you can change your feelings and start lusting for them anytime.
Me ā Just because I gave one person a special place in my heart, doesnāt mean Iāll do it for everybody else. Because I know I truly shared a special bond with her.
Sister ā I donāt know what your bond was. But seeing the present situation and seeing how hurt she is, I know your so-called bond was worthless and weak. I donāt feel all relations are the same. I donāt think our own brother would ever think of changing relations with us like you did.
Me ā I never tried to change relations. I kept my feelings quiet as possible as I knew sheāll be hurt. I can understand your indignation and feeling of betrayalā¦
Sister ā This is not anger. This is just what we feel is right to do. We just donāt want to have anything to do with you anymore. You have so many girls willing to call you brother, so it wonāt matter if one of them leaves you. Enjoy life with the rest, just donāt betray them the way you betrayed my sister. Goodbye, take care, stay blessed.
Me ā Your heart knows whatās right and wrong to do. And you should know no relationship can replace another. Iāll love Jerry forever and nobody can take her place in my life. I wish weāre back together someday.I guess nothing significant was said after this. After that Jerry messaged me a week or two later via her sister.
Jerry ā Look Ravi bro, I know youāre older than me and I respect you. Thatās why I thought of messaging you. I hope you realize what youāre doing is wrong and itās of no use deleting your Facebook and Twitter accounts. We are both parts of our showās fandom and thatās our common interest. I interacted with you as I consider you my brother. Please donāt go around telling people that I loved you romantically. Whatever little I shared with you, I did as a sister. There are plenty of things I didnāt share with you, and I know you didnāt share with me either. Thatās all there ever was between us and I never said anything for you to wrongly feel that I love you romantically. I donāt want to hear about this anymore. If you want, you can message me on Facebook sometimes but not regarding this matter.
Me ā Iām so happy to hear from you. I hope you know I deleted my accounts not out of attention seeking, but because all of that means nothing to me without you. I never told anyone that you loved me romantically and that seems to be a misunderstanding. I have reasons for loving you myself and I hope you know that sharing secrets isnāt the criteria for loving someone.
Jerry ā I canāt stand this. I know certain behaviours of yours like after our phone call, you said you hope I feel comfortable with youā¦ and thus I understood what was going on in your mind.
Me ā That I am a lustful beast and a pervert, right? Iām sorry, sis. I cannot hope to make you understand anything unless you put aside your pre-conceived notions. Please donāt message me until you do that. I may have committed the “sin” of loving you more than a sister, but my heart knows I did not do it with any wrong intentions. I know I’ve done many bad things but loving you isn’t one of them. I love you always and I hope everything gets well someday.She didnāt message me after this, didnāt respond to mine either when I messaged saying sorry if she felt bad.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by ravi_zimmerfan.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantHer sister wrote that to me in April. I think I had posted it here. And yes Jerry had communicated with me via her sister after that and I had asked her not to message until she understands what I’m explaining… I remember posting it here.
I re-read our discussions and remembered my few interactions with her after the breakup. Honestly, I can’t see anything other than her maintaining a stony silence or sending back a curt “We’re strangers now, goodbye and take care” type of message. I’m forseeing the worst possible outcome and also the situation to continue solo, like Tintin did for Chang. But I guess the outcome depends on careful communication at this stage too.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantOK, Anita. Thanks for such thought-provoking and meaningful advice. š I considered your words and thought over the root issue you mentioned. I admit that more than Jerry, itās her sister who hurt me with her words. Though like you another friend also told me that itās not wise to take a 15 year old girlās immature words so seriously, but I still cannot get over it. I guess it indicates the lack of confidence and self respect within me. But yes, no matter how long it takes to reconcile with Jerry, no matter whether she maintains a stony silence or sends back rude and unfriendly replies, Iām determined to not lose my temper under any circumstances. I wonāt be sending her any reply without showing you first. I’m going over our thread as you suggested.
I had kept the āsweet to deny itā part because she and her sister mentioned it twice before. āWe have no anger towards you, we just donāt want to have anything to do with you anymore.ā And ādonāt know if youāll replyā, had kept it hoping to appeal to her conscience. Of course, can delete them if needed. Otherwise the message is alright I hope? Anything she and her sister can twist and take wrongly?
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI wrote this… not sure if it’s any better, but at least a step in the right direction I hope.
*****
I know you donāt want to talk to me and I know how fallen I am in the eyes of you and your sister now. You are sweet to deny it, Jerry, but you know thatās the truth. I donāt know whether youāll reply or read this message, or delete it after a glance. Iām messaging you because my exams are over at last, and this is something I have been wishing to say for wrong. I donāt feel repeating what weāve said before is of any use. I accept that I am nobody to consider myself above social rules, and in that context I accept that I have done wrong. I know you donāt like these things and thatās why I tried to keep my feelings from you and confessed only to 2 mutual friends. If it still means I transformed from a āhumble and caring brotherā into a monster, then I accept that I am one. But God knows that if thereās anything I have never done, it is stopping caring for you, disrespecting you or thinking inappropriately of you. I admit I have lost my temper over petty issues, behaved badly with you, even stopped talkingā¦ but my temper has never ended with me not regretting it. I was so touched by your last message, āthough he hurted me with the bad words he used, Iāll pray for him and always think good only for himā, I promised to change myself and Iāve made every effort to stop using bad language and losing temper. Because I genuinely respect and care for you, I have always done and always will do.
The above issue aside, I can only hope you understand that I never lusted for you or thought inappropriately of you, Jerry. My love was always based on respect for you as a person and your virtues which make you who you are. Thatās what it always was and always will be. I accept that you loved me as a brother only and never expected this from me, and felt so betrayed. Iām sorry for everything you had to go through because of me. But if someone is doing their best to make up to you after five months, I wish you could see that their underlying motivation is sincere, and not lust or bad intentions. I donāt know about anything else, but I miss you. I miss you and our bond every day and every moment. There has not been a single day from 7th March when Iāve had a single moment of peace. I have been told to remain happy with all the others who call me brother. But you know better than me that no relation can ever take the place of another. And nobody can ever take your place in my life either, Jerry. Thatās how it has been and how it always will be. Iām not asking for any special place in your life. I had already promised you that my feelings wonāt ever come between us again, and Iām willing to be contented with any form of communication that is acceptable to you. I hope you try to understand.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantYa I knew that the message I had drafted is anything but good. š Honestly, I am at a loss for how to frame it, because I had tried saying almost everything to her and she just ignored it. I donāt know whether this spiritual thing is right to say, because she seems allergic to the very word āloveā coming from me now and sheās also stubborn that she cannot accept anything other than a bro-sis relation. Maybe I should say that I am willing to settle with any form of communication acceptable to her? The rest of the message, Iāll try to reframe considering your advice.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantThanks. I donāt mind discussing about the movie and its relevance, just that this dead body thing is something which has been haunting my dreams from long. Sort of like the boggarts from Harry Potter. Otherwise discussing is fine. š
Posting my message to Jerry here. I tried to be honest like you said, but it feels more sycophantic. If itās okay, Iāll delete it after youāve read.
*****I know you donāt want to talk to me and I know that Iām the ultimate villain in the eyes of you and your sister now. You may deny it, Jerry, but we both know thatās the truth. I donāt blame you. I donāt know whether youāll reply or even read this message, or delete it after a glance. I donāt want to monotonously repeat what I already have said before. I respect your views and opinions, and I respect your right to make decisions even if I donāt agree with the same. If you feel that permanently breaking relations is the only right punishment for me, then what can I say? I know well about the brother-sister rules in the Indian culture and I know that a ābrotherā developing any human feelings other than brotherly is considered a great sin and enough to permanently label him a traitor and pervert. I accept that I am nobody to consider myself above social rules, and in that context I accept that I have done a great wrong. I accept that I am a monster. As a biology student, Iāve always been told that our feelings are hormonal and neural in nature and we cannot help whom we fall in love with. I know you donāt like these things and thatās why I tried to keep my feelings from you and confessed only to 2 mutual friends. If it still means I transformed from a āhumble and caring brotherā into a monster, then I accept that I am one. I admit I should not have grown so possessive and jealous. For these five months I have hated myself knowing that if I had been satisfied with what I had, you would still be with me today. I couldnāt beā¦ because you mean a lot to me. You still do and always will do.
I just want to say something. You said that my feelings show you that I understood neither you nor your nature. Letās say thatās true. After this, I have been told that the Internet is a dangerous place due to people like me who āwear masksā and trick and victimize innocent people. Iāve also been told that the other girls who call me brother need to beware as I can change my feelings and lust for them anytime. Please imagine what it feels like to hear these things after three years of togetherness? I cannot support myself obstinately, when I know I myself have done bad things too. But God knows that if thereās anything I have never done, it is stopping caring for you, disrespecting you or thinking inappropriately of you. I admit I have lost my temper over petty issues, behaved badly with you, even stopped talkingā¦ but my temper has never ended with me not regretting it. I was so touched by your last message, āthough he hurted me with the bad words he used, Iāll pray for him and always think good only for himā, I promised to change myself and from March, Iāve made every effort to stop using bad language and losing temper. Because I genuinely respect and care for you, I have always done and always will do. You may not accept any form of love other than brotherly, which is fine, but it does not mean that form of love is lustful. You referred to me as āRavi broā in April and I promised you that I would never let those feelings come between us again. If a bro-sis bond is the only thing acceptable to you, I promised to keep it at that only. I took full responsibility. What more can I do?? I have been waiting for any reply from you, but everything has been dry and barren as a desert.
Iām doing my best to acknowledge your situation and take responsibility on my part. Please try to look at things from my perspective too, Jerry. Putting aside my own feelings, I unconditionally apologize to you again for everything. I accept that you loved me as a brother only and never expected this from me, and felt so betrayed. Iām sorry for everything you had to go through because of me. But if someone is trying their best to make up to you after five months of you not talking to them, I wish you could see that their underlying motivation is sincere, and not lust or bad intentions. You could have made it clear that youāll not accept anything but a bro-sis bondā¦ you know I would never try to force you. But breaking our relation permanently for this? Iām sorry if you feel bad, but youāre looking at everything about me in the worst possible manner, be it my early posts about (our fav actor) or me being happy about you being comfortable after our phone call. Youāre seeing hidden bad things everywhere even when there arenāt any. Please try to understand what Iām saying, for once. If thereās anything I could do to prove that I mean my words, Iām ready for it. I do not have any right to ask you for forgiveness; I accept that itās your right alone to decide. But I have to say this, no matter now corny it soundsā¦ I miss you. There has not been a single day from 7th March when Iāve had a single moment of peace. Iām not asking for any special place in your life. I have been told to remain happy with all the others who call me brother. But you know better than me that no relation can ever take the place of another. And nobody can ever take your place in my life either. Thatās how it has been and how it always will be.
ravi_zimmerfanParticipantA humble request to not compare my parents to Mufasaās dead body. I know there have been some disagreements and bad incidents between us, much of it stemming from a lack of understanding and maturity on both sides. Iām glad that things have now been sorted out and at least the independence thing is no longer an issue for me. I donāt know if the loss of belief in a protecting parent is the reason that the death scene clicked with me, because like I said back then none of these issues existed. I do know that my later life situation is why I grew too attached to Jerry and sought desperately to be extra special to her and for her life to revolve around me. Whatās done is doneā¦ I just wish to fix things here on.
-
AuthorPosts