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JohnParticipant
Speaking as a man who was once obsessed and addicted to women’s sexuality and beauty and mistook lust for love, all I can say is that I was weak and I allowed women to feed my delusions by jumping into bed with me very quickly.
If my mind becomes hooked and obsessed, I must be in love, right?
If I pursue this woman and she returns my advances, then we must be in love, right?
These relationships were fallacies rooted on a weak foundation driven by hormones and insecurities probably on both sides.
- This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by John.
JohnParticipantThanks Bob.
I’m still very much getting to know myself and feel very much in flux between my old self and new. Perhaps that’s the reason why nothing is solidifying. And I like your quote about trying another pond or river. Oh jeez, I hope I don’t have to move to another city. 😛
JohnParticipantKnowledge and experience are worthy goals only if its to learn how empty and vapid the things you described really are. We could spare you the time, effort, energy, suffering, and pain to tell you that they are, but if you need first hand experience to truly know it, by all means go for it.
I’m of the mindset that there are certain things I can learn based on the experience of others and not necessarily through first hand experience (e.g. more money leads to more problems, sex without love leaves you feeling empty and unsatisfied, no matter what mark you make on the world eventually it will be forgotten, etc)
But I also recognize I’m also no different from you. I still have very common selfish desires and cravings and strive to accomplish certain things in life so in that way, you and are very similar and struggle with similar issues.
JohnParticipantI’m still not sure you need a revolution to achieve peace. But then again it depends on the definition of what mean by revolution – it can mean fighting, aggression, blood, and tears, but it can also mean letting go, stepping back, allowing, opening, and accepting. I support the latter more than I do the former.
I’ve probably jumped to some conclusions so let’s go back to beginning and start with the most fundamental questions why do you want the best looking girl? why do you want to be famous? why do you want to leave a legacy?
The Wright Brothers didn’t want to fly, they want to change the way people traveled and improve the quality of life for others.
NASA didn’t want to go to the moon, they wanted to explore space, discover new frontiers in math and science, and realize man’s potential.
What’s your “why”?
- This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by John.
JohnParticipantHey Lester,
From what I gather, you’re approaching this with wide eyes open and that’s commendable. Scary, but commendable. You know that the life you described will only lead to depression, heartache, stress, anxiety, loneliness, despair, a potential mental nervous breakdown, and yet you’re still willing to chase after that fantasy.
(To be honest, I have a bit of hard time believing that you’ve actually experienced these things in their full force, because anyone who has will tell you that depression, anxiety, and loneliness are a hell worse than any made up in any story, but I’ll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.)
But if a man has had his hand singed to a crisp and is about to put his hand in the fire knowing full well that he’s about to be burned again, it’s probably going to be very hard to try and stop him.
What I propose as alternative is a middle path and not one of extremes, all or nothing, nor black or white thinking.
I disagree that desire and craving leads to evolution and growth. Desire and craving lead to revolution. And, if we’ve learned anything from history, all revolutions result in immediate pain and suffering. It’s only through a return to modesty, humility, peace, and striving for equanimity that we can actually make progress, evolve, and grow.
It’s okay to dream and have hopes, but ones that are grounded in reality, look beyond the superficial, and recognize the impermanence of things like beauty, wealth, and success. My advice would be, don’t slip into the black hole of fantasy. Even teetering on its edge can suck you right in and never let you go.
- This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by John.
JohnParticipantBefore we start with the “ego bashing”, I invite you to read the following:
The ego is not something that needs to be eradicated. It’s a part of you and nothing that’s a part of you needs to treated with such angry vehemence. The ego is a small child inside of you that needs to brought into the fold and treated gently and with self-compassion if it is to be mature and healthy.
- This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by John.
JohnParticipantThat was brilliant! Thank you.
It requires so much more effort to look and appreciate beyond the superficial. My mind is not wired that way, but I recognize that’s simply an old habit and old way of looking at things. I will definitely endeavour to take the time and look beyond the surface and appreciate the inner beauty of all things and people.
JohnParticipantThe first question you might want to ask yourself is why do you want all these things? What happiness will they bring? What void are you trying to fill with all of these superficial externalities?
Remember the second noble truth – the cause of suffering is desire and craving. It is a vicious cycle that will never end; there will always be a better looking girl, there will always be a place you haven’t visited, you could always be more famous, you could always have more money, you could always be more important, you could always be more successful, and yet none of these things will make you happy.
What is wrong with fantasy? That’s just it. It’s all fantasy. It’s the fact that you’ll be constantly be living in your head. If you let it, your imagination will run wild. This is your mind and ego playing its old tricks dragging you into wanting more and more. Given in now and you’ll never be satiated. You’ll always be running after something.
Have a good wife, make a good income, take time off from work, be a hero to your community, let your children be your legacy, and be an important person to your family and friends – that is happiness! 🙂
July 5, 2013 at 10:23 am in reply to: Who is the most beautiful/handsome girl/guy you've met? #38014JohnParticipantI wasn’t going to say anything at first, but I have to echo Matt’s sentiments; beauty is skin deep and impermanent. Observe, appreciate, and let go. The slope towards obsession, fantasy, and idealizing is very slippery. To go back, rehash, revisit, and review who was, what was, how was, why was is a futile endeavor that will take you no where and only keep you trapped in your mind going around in circles and ultimately losing touch with reality. I can’t condone the questions.
JohnParticipantWow! It’s like looking in a mirror! LOL!
I can’t believe how many times I’ve heard this story:
1) Man and women decide to separate
2) Man finds comfort in the arms of another woman
3) Man develops a high intensity physical relationship with new woman
4) Man begins to sense that something “doesn’t feel right”, but can’t put his finger on it.It frustrates me to no end that so many men experience this pattern and we’re never given a heads up or advice on what not to do during a separation or divorce. I’m going to take out billboard ad and paste this all over the world: DO NOT PURSUE A NEW RELATIONSHIP DURING YOUR SEPARATION OR SOON AFTER YOUR DIVORCE!
I’ve been in the exact same situation – you get divorced and you simply take your wife out of the picture and put another women in her place physically, mentally, and emotionally. You haven’t changed, your behaviour hasn’t changed, your thoughts about relationships, love, and sex haven’t changed, heck, you haven’t even changed your living space, but yet you still expect this new women and relationship to be better than your last. Been there, done that, and it does not work.
I could go on for hours, but all I can say is trust your instincts, therapist, and friends on this one – this girl is not right for you right now. I’m sure she’s wonderful and would perfect for you a year or two down the line, but you need to spend some time alone. You need to get some solid footing before you can pursue another relationship, otherwise, you’ll find yourself married and divorced very soon.
As hard as it is, let this one go by. You’ll definitely meet another women when you’re in a much clearer head space and you’ll both be better for it.
Not to scare you off from taking action, but a word of warning – if you’ve haven’t been alone since you were 18, this break-up is going to hurt. Might even be more painful that the separation from your wife, so brace yourself with plenty of space and time to process your emotions.
Best of luck!
JohnParticipantHave you spoken to a professional about this?
Would any of these symptoms characterize your relationship? http://psychcentral.com/lib/2012/symptoms-of-codependency/
JohnParticipantI’m going to go out on a limb and say that perhaps it’s not how you’re communicating, but with whom.
If you’re well grounded, speak from the heart, and have a healthy ego, then even a miscommunication could be easily rectified with a clarification. But if you find people are overacting and closing themselves off, then, you have to ask yourself, who are these people with whom you’re having these problems? Is there a pattern that you can recognize?
Also keep in mind. It’s not you. It’s not them. It’s both of you. Sometimes, you won’t be able to connect with people with whom you’re not compatible in terms of communication. Maybe under different circumstances – different time of year, age, stage in life, but at this point, that connection is just not there. As you become more self-aware and accept that you can’t be friends with everyone (even those people with whom you would like to be friends), the less energy you’ll expand trying beat a dead horse.
Focus your energy on those with whom you do connect. Try and make new friends, but don’t unnecessarily push the envelope if the other person is not willing to meet you at your half-way point.
- This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by John.
JohnParticipantThe word “obsession” really jumped out at me because I have been there before and it’s not a pleasant place to be. If life has taught me anything, is that obsessions of any kind are not a healthy way of going through life. You can love something or someone, be passionate, or enthused, but to develop an emotional attachment that verges on obsession will always result in pain and suffering.
Whenever I feel obsessed, I recognize that I’m doing so because the foundation on which I’m standing is not very stable and I’m clinging on to something or someone outside of myself in order to find comfort and stability.
So I would ask, if you look under your feet, how would describe the foundation on which your standing? How stable do you feel in your life? Are you standing on a strong rock that allows you to see the world clearly? Or do you feel like you are are on a wobbling life raft in the middle of the ocean in search of a passing boat to come by?
If your foundation is not strong and if you can’t feel the firm rock beneath your feet, you will naturally cling to people and things outside of yourself. And remember, nothing outside of you is that stable, permanent, or secure. Stability and security have to come from within first if you are to ever build a strong and healthy bond with others.
JohnParticipantI’m not sure I have any meaningful advice to give you on how to move on or let go, but I have been on the other side of the equation.
I too have suffered from a history of co-dependency – moving from one relationship to another without any time in between where I could spend time alone, learn about myself, learn to love myself, better understand my own needs, and not try to always save or take care of others as way of compensating for past pain or filling a void.
Like your former lover, I too had this same eye opening realization when I jumped into another relationship after many years of marriage. In just two short months, I fell full in force with passion and high intensity. I saw some kind of pattern repeating again and so I had to break it off. At the time, I didn’t even know why I had to. I just had to. Because I didn’t understand what force was driving me away I had no way of communicating to this person why I was leaving so I just simply walked away. That guilt still haunts me.
I know I’m not your former lover and maybe I have no right to say this to you, but if I could speak to you as if you were the person I left behind in my wake, I would say this…
You too were a huge symbol for me in my life. I cared for you very deeply, maybe even loved you and leaving you was horribly painful. You were not just a nugget in my life, but a very important person who made me realize something about myself that I had never realized before. I think about you often and sometimes even miss you. But ours was not a healthy relationship and so I had to leave you in order to take the time to break a vicious cycle in my life. I’m grateful for the time we spent together and for that I want to thank you. If I caused you any pain or hurt, I’m sorry. If I spoke any unkind words, it was only out of pain and sadness of losing you and out selfishness to help me let you go. But leaving you was something I had to do, both for your sake and mine and I hope someday you’ll understand and forgive me. I know you will find love again or you may have already. All I can hope for is that you will think of me fondly. I, on the other hand, will always remember you and think of you as the person who helped me find clarity and insight into my life.
JohnParticipantThank you for your replies.
I guess I do feel like I have unfinished business and, at the same time, the minds constant reminders could be a hyperactive radar that’s constantly scanning the area in search of similar dangers.
I don’t think I’d be able to resolve any unfinished business with them directly because I don’t think any casual interactions would allow me to communicate that which would ultimately allow me to let go and I’m not sure they’d be willing to listen (they have moved on with their lives and to what extent am I a memory in their minds..probably not much), but indirectly, with myself there is some healing and processing that needs to take place.
Boy, I guess I still have a lot of work to do.
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