I am just seeing these posts from Chickadee33 now. I am also seeing that they were flagged for inappropriate content. These replies to what I feel were vulnerable and thoughtful posts about a very difficult relationship that I have been experiencing, were judgmental, hasty, and quite insulting. Unlike Anita who spent the time to thoroughly consider what I was experiencing and what he might also be experiencing, it seems that Chickadee33 took it upon herself to place blame, and also imagine that she has the ultimate insight into what is really going on between me and this man. She quite kindly broke it down into a case of desperate woman (me) vs. user (man I am seeing). If this were 10 months ago, I might even stop to consider whether or not her view had credibility. As I wrote throughout this relationship, I have spoken of attachment issues I feel I have and how allowing the relationship to unfold unconventionally and at a natural pace, has allowed me to see what is truly unfolding and what could unfold. It has been a practice in non-attachment if anything. I am in a relationship that is said to have no future, and yet, we have been moving along into the future quicker and quicker, picking up speed. This entire time, he has been as equally pursuant of me, as I have been him. There was a short time when I tried to break things off for good, that he was not happy to see me, but I was worried about his mental health at that time for other reasons and so I did try to make more contact with him than he did me. There really has never been a man who has SHOWN me with actions how much he wants me in his life. I have been a watcher throughout our relationship as much as a participant, and I can see the struggles that he faces, as much as Anita has also helped me to understand them with her unique empathetic insight. I do not see the world in black and white, and thus at times I will be naive, but I’d rather be a bit naive, rather than cold and unfeeling and ruthless. I am not a fool for loving, I would be a fool for wanting. But I no longer wish for the loving in return, I just let what is, BE. The loving comes through in it’s own unique way. I don’t believe that a man who wished to use me and had no interest for me in his life would continue to spend all of his time with me. He comes to see more than I go to see him. I don’t believe he’d ask me to spend the holidays with him and his family, or make plans with me to go places in the new year. I have no interest in convincing anyone to be with me, nor do I think he will magically decide to be if I follow him around long enough. I am happy to just be with him. If he was using me, this would assume manipulation, which would be hard to do, since my eyes are very clearly open.

It’s a reminder of how easy it is to judge something from the outside, that might appear like it has a black and white appearance, when really it’s coloured with all shades of the rainbow.

I’ve been to therapy, if you’re really that interested. My therapist has said, sometimes the lesson isn’t for you, sometimes it takes someone open, patient and kind, to teach someone what love is; sometimes I am doing the teaching, even if I don’t mean or want to take on that role.

I think that Anita and I already discussed a little bit about why I might be seeking out men who have a hard time committing, or maybe her insight led me to consider that on my own. It could be that I am attracted to men who reinforce the idea that I will be abandoned. Sometimes our psyches want to prove that they’re right. Part of it comes down to feeling worthy of love too. If I keep giving love to others, who can’t give back, then maybe i don’t have to receive it, because am I worthy to receive it? I am not beyond considering my own self destructive behaviours and unconscious thought patterns. Maybe you missed the part where I said I have a degree in psych… I am psychoanalytic to a t.

I kind of wish it were as simple as what you reduced it to Chickadee33. I have been asking myself why it seems to bother others, in my life as well. Namely my estranged brother, etc. Some make judgments out of a protective nature, some because they are angry with themselves for having fallen victim to what they believe are the same patterns, some need to project anger… Myriad of reasons. Some people feel threatened I think, by something that does not fit in a tidy little box.

I truly believe now more than ever, that I can’t lose what isn’t really mine, so while I feel a strong connection to this man, I don’t need to hold onto that. It just exists there as it does, and will dissolve if it has served its purpose. Will you cause me to question and waver on what I have had the distinct pleasure to witness over a year and a half? Something unexpected and beautiful blossoming out of a relationship that was said to have an expiration date long ago? Life is swift and changing and it changes you. You change people and they change you. Wouldn’t we all be so lucky just to labelled users and those who are used.. I feel as though I’ve had those kind of relationships in the past, and they were always short lived with no depth. No love, no care, nothing binding. My current relationship feels like a sheep dressed in a wolf’s clothing. People have told me it’s the wolf in sheep’s clothing.. .and over time they’ve slowly changed their minds. I think the hardest part about judgement from others is that you start to lose sight of what you see as true, you start to question your own sanity. It’s hard believe your own intuition sometimes, especially when you know the faith in it could hurt you. Your mind wants to protect itself from any kind of damage. It takes a lot of faith to go against your own mind.

I’m getting a little abstract now. But thank you Chickadee33 for passing judgement and reinforcing just how much the steady rushing river can block out all of that mindless chatter.

Anita, so as it turns out, the problem ended up being that while I didn’t feel that I was verbally receiving love, I did feel that it was being exchanged strongly in other ways. I spent about 3 weeks apart from the man in question, and we slowly ended up back in our relationship in question… I am feeling assertive and confident this time around.

It’s funny how much your voice from this forum has been in my head throughout the last few months. So many things you remarked on, have proven to ring true. I see the fear and insecurity that is blocking him from opening up to me now more than ever. I’m still not sure that he sees a future with me, but I feel at peace with that now. There are definitely the 5 A’s in our relationship: attention, acceptance, appreciation, affection and allowing. There is not a capital C for commitment, but it’s been so different to just see a relationship unfold naturally without any need to put it in a tidy little box with a red bow. I feel so different expressing exactly who I am now and how I feel and asserting myself when I am upset.

We’ve had two incidents that have proven to me that there have been changes. He got upset over something small but ended up getting frustrated and questioned my desire to spend time with him. I now see that a lot of his upset comes from a place of insecurity. I got upset because was harsh with me and got emotional. In the past he would’ve been uncomfortable and made me feel like my emotions were unwelcome. During this incident he hugged me and kissed me and told me he had spoken harshly and it was his fault. Taking blame and acknowledging my emotions! Huge.

He seems to work daily to acknowledge his gratitude for my presence in his life. That he appreciates me, that he wants to be there for me. He has been asking a lot about whether I am seeing other men and seems quite worried about this prospect. Lately he has been especially romantic, taking me on dates, taking time off of work for me, visiting me at my house in the morning, putting on movies that always seem to have a romantic undertone. Where he used to be critical of me for something he is now kind. This past weekend we took a walk through a park we went to on our first date over a year ago. He said to me “I really like you, have I ever told you this?” I told him he’d never said that and I appreciate it greatly. I feel like he’s always trying to express more but he can’t. While we were in said park, I saw a young guy with sparkling water that I like and I said “look it’s my dream man”..as a joke and he said “you’re right, he’s reading and he has emotions, all you want is a man who can express his emotions, and I can’t even say the word emotion”. It was all very telling of how insecure he feels about how he isn’t expressive. He’s divulged more of his childhood and how expressing oneself was not encouraged, music was not played and everything had to be strictly business for the most part. There are so many things bottled up inside of him. I’m just waiting for the explosion.

I don’t really know what’s happening this time around, but I feel something coming. I feel like I want to stick around for it and I don’t feel worried anymore. I really want a love that will give back, and I feel like maybe this could. Even if it doesn’t, it’s been a lovely lovely ride.

It’s so strange, every time I feel like we’re at a stalemate, the pieces move in the most extraordinary ways, and I have to come up with a whole new strategy. It’s just hard to trust what I feel sometimes. I don’t want to fool myself.

I don’t know if this all makes my naive and weak and silly, but I have a little sliver of hope yet.

Thank you for your input Rose of Yellow. It is never too late to join a pity party! Haha. Poor Anita has been bearing the brunt of all of this. She has helped me to navigate my attachment and detachment from this man skillfully.

It has been almost two weeks since I’ve seen him now, and time is flying by. I am no longer immersed in the grief of it. You are right, time will give me more clarity. It’s strange though, as in the past time has allowed me to release people that are no longer really “there”. I don’t mean physically, I mean I can tell when someone has let me go as well. I’ve been meditating on this man, and oddly we still seem attached. He’s still sort of “there”.

I am doing my best to view the situation rationally and see him for who he is and what the relationship would be. I know that a relationship would not work between us now and I have since become more immersed in things that I have been ignoring. Still I find it odd that he’s still sort of lingering spiritually. I feel like I listened more to everyone else’s feelings regarding us (including his), more than I listened to my own. I know our connection is not once sided, but he will continue to refuse the deepening of it, and he does not really see its value at this time. I feel like he will still be in my life, though I’m not sure of the capacity of it.

So there was a question posed in response to one of the articles on this site about loving without expecting others to fill a void. I really wish it could be answered, because this is what I am battling with. How to manage expectations vs just having needs that aren’t of the egoic self.

“Hi Audrey, I understand what you wrote about boundaries and being aware of violations, while still allowing someone to be themselves. What about unconscious violations. What if the person is not as emotionally developed as you are and you feel like a deep connection is lacking. What if this person lacks self-love, can they love you? Can you still give love freely to them and set the example, or do you decide that you just don’t have the connection that is needed to continue growing together. Can two people really ever grow at the same rate?

Should you continue to love someone who does not love you at the same rate? stay in the relationship with them?”

I mean I know this is what we’ve been questioning and we’ve broken down reasons for why he may not be able to love, but does that mean I was right to remove my love because he was not meeting my expectations?

Thanks Anita. I am trying to sit with it and for the past few days I have only texted with him briefly and he is definitely not reaching out to me during this time.

I have asked if he’d like to get together as friends at the end of the month or in September at some point. He has said maybe and we will see. I know this is my way of ripping the bandaid off a little slower. I really do hope he is meant to be in my life in some other way, but I heed the warnings that you have suggested. I know that it will be tricky and I will have to be fully honest with myself about whether it is something I can handle without falling apart.

It may very well fizzle out completely and we will no longer have any place in each other’s lives. It will be telling to see what ensues. I recently consulted with a psychic that I have used for years and she basically reiterated all that we have discussed here, just by what she picked up on from his photo. She says he is not a bad guy, but he really does need to sort himself out and that I should not put all of my eggs in his basket. She feels that he is overly concerned with getting hurt or hurting me and he is not ready for a serious relationship. She was adamant that she sees him in my life and that I would know further about where I stand with him next summer. I have been reading a lot of articles on emotionally unavailability and I have been really trying to see the relationship without the rose coloured glasses. I am now asking myself if he is someone I truly see myself with, as he is today. The answer to that will become more and more clear with time, but I know there are things that would be hard to come to terms with. How do you build a romantic connection when one person refuses to connect emotionally.

I know that if he came back and told me he wanted to be with me, that it would feel really good. It does not mean that it would be right and I have been trying to really think that about how it would make me feel. I feel as though I’ve been chasing this hooded figure for so long, as he has yet to really turn around and show me his face. I have yet to consider his place in MY life. I’ve just gotten so caught up in following him.

About a month ago, I did meet a guy at a coffee shop near me in town. I had the go ahead to date other men, and after a few visits this man did ask me out. We’ve seen each other infrequently because of all of this going on with the other guy, but he has proven himself to be patient and is quite willing to discuss his past and things he is looking for in the future. I want to take it reallly slow, but I am enjoying getting to know him. I know it will ultimately help me to see that there are other men who do not display the behaviours of the other. I just don’t want to jump into anything and want to take time for myself. I do think I ended this at the right time, as I have yet to go back to work, and have some time to deal with all of these emotions.

I’m sure I will update you as time goes on, and I hope I can post more positive things on this forum in the future. Thank you.

**Sorry I meant a fake relationship with me. All of the benefits without the commitment.

I kind of wonder though. Have I just reaffirmed all of his greatest fears. Have I gone and done what he was worried I would do all along. Just as he thinks he’s getting closer to me I go and do what his mother did to him and pull it all out from under the rug, make it conditional. Just as he was doing to me, I went and did to him.

People have asked if I waited all this time just so that I could do what he did to me. I don’t wish to punish him. I feel like I am trying to save some love for myself and whoever I may want to give it to in the future too. I felt like maybe I could deal with a right now but I think I was fooling myself.

I just wonder if maybe people are right and he was testing me to see if I would stick around and now I’ve just abandoned him. Now I see that a lot of his operations were likely unconscious and that he may never have left me for someone else, but he wanted to always have that out. What do you think about that? Do you think that if I’d stayed that it would’ve shown him that someone would ultimately be there for him despite anything and soothed some of his inner child scabs? Or would he have kept pushing me away because a mother’s love is not a void that I can ever really fill. I’m pretty sure his mother has expressed love to him at some point, it just doesn’t seem to have been a consistent thing growing up?

I just don’t know.. If love requires pain, some self sacrifice? Seeing more than the other person can and staying because they need you? Friends would tell me how **** it was that he could tell me he would eventually be with someone else, and how could I put myself through that. But should I have had the insight to see that that was all just a ruse he was using to push me away and test the boundaries of my love?

I wrote him when I got home last night. Shared a letter with him that I’d written months ago in anticipation of this time. A time where I might have the strength to not go on operating like we have been. I told him that he was the love of my life thus far and how he has taught me so much, and that he will always be loved by me and that I will always be in his corner. That I want him to have felicity, no matter who it may be with. I’ve written him letters that I never sent since we met, as a way to sort through my feelings. They remained fervent and rather unchanged since the beginning, they just became a little less optimistic with time.

I reiterated that I was leaving the situation behind and not him and that I will continue to want him in my life when we are ready. I think there is another chapter for us, in a different way I said. I told him that I believed he was saving parts of himself for someone else and ultimately we could never go as deep as we could’ve because of that. And that is something that I need, and I feel like I need to consider myself at least a little bit. I wanted us to have a love that had no limits and ultimately it was stifled in many ways. It felt as though there were parts we just weren’t exploring.

I just don’t know if I have a pattern of seeking emotionally unavailable people because maybe I too, am emotionally unavailable people. My mother was anxious avoidant in childhood and this was due to her upbringing. She sought out love from her children to fill her voids. My grandmother was very harsh but loving in her older age. Now my mom shares her love with me any chance she can get. My dad was very loving with me but passed in my early 20s. He was also a highly depressed/OCD sufferer. And I have sought out men like him for some time… I am slowly trying to accept love freely, but I am still probably more comfortable giving it. I will be working on this and trying to add more awareness to the patterns that I live out. I have been in therapy before as well. Did I mention that both me and this man have degrees in Psychology. We both wanted to be therapists at one point. It’s really hard for me to see him as a therapist because he seems so entirely uncomfortable with emotions.

So amazing that you’ve used this as an outlet to learn more and that you’ve been brave enough to do the work in therapy on your own. I mean really you don’t have to be an expert in a field to help someone else, to give them that little nugget of wisdom that they remember and take with them. I’m sure there is a lot of thanks to go around.