Hi Anita and Teak, thank you for the insights. I feel that your responses have been helpful, yet at the same time sometimes a little bit of an exaggeration. Perhaps I don’t convey all of the details of the situation as well as I can. I agree with Anita, in that he likely has OCPD and a few concurrent OCD tendencies. Yes he is aware that it will be hard to live with someone else, as having lived with a male roommate before who didn’t practice the most basic cleanliness made him extremely resentful. He knows that I am tidy and as classified in the OCPD personality, he doesn’t necessarily externalize a lot of his perfectionism, he internalizes it. So, he doesn’t bother me with a lot of the things that bother him. I am pretty OCD about cleaning having grown up with a clean freak for a mom, but she would be constantly complaining about a few crumbs or the like. I feel like he doesn’t put that on me and therefore doesn’t make me feel entirely anxious. The specific things he’s mentioned that he dislikes I feel that I can help with and they will be less of a bother in time as he will see that I am trying to help. We never have actual fights about cleaning and he doesn’t spend all of his time and effort fixing things that I don’t do either. I think his is a pretty mild case. I think it’s mostly about control in his environment, due to a lack of control in childhood.

I suspect that the OCPD would stem from issues of growing up with a very critical and emotionally cold mother, a potentially abusive father (he admits he got beat when he deserved it), and I believe he does lack awareness of why he operates the way he does. He seems to have originally created the ideal of someone perfect who would demonstrate similar quirks to him, as the only remedy for his depression and the lack of control he likely consistently feels. I now see why he tried to break up early on, why he has been against living together, why he says he does not feel romantic love. Showing love and affection would be seen as weak and he may lose control if it is revealed. I see that I’ve already been doing what he needs for love and affection to be fostered within our relationship. We’ve been building trust, companionship, moments of romance, care and affection, acceptance… All of these things make me believe that he may have a hard time living with me, or raising a child, but at the same time we we have the foundation to make it successful. I don’t believe he makes the people around him suffer the way he does internally. I’ve mentioned that he should seek help in the past, but he was not ready. It would be hard to discuss emotions in therapy, when that is the one thing he tries to hide best. I feel that there is still enough of a workable relationship to have everything come together, even if it means that I shoulder more of the emotional responsibility. I can see that he is trying little by little, and there is no abuse in our relationship. Anytime he crosses a line, where he gets “disappointed” in me I will remind him that he did not appropriately communicate what his needs were, and that he cannot expect me to rise to a concealed expectation. I told him I am not perfect, and I will always try to work with him, and respect his differences, but he must also respect mine and be willing to acknowledge my efforts for things I do.

I know the portrait I portray on paper has not always been flattering. ON paper the relationship probably appears to be unworkable, and he may appear to be more damaged, but I do want to stress as Anita, pointed out that sometimes the responses I feel I’ve gotten have come from a place of potential bias or impatience. I’m sure that some of the things I point out about my relationship with this man remind anyone who is reading about a relationship they have had. It’s easy to forget that within every relationship, there is a different framework and it’s personal. It’s so easy to tell a friend to leave a guy she’s with because we only hear the skewed evidence for why he’s a loser.

I feel that within this relationship I have grown a lot and whether I am naive in thinking the relationship will continue to grow, I believe it will. I am someone who has faith in theories like neuroplasticity and the ability for someone to change, even without professional help. I believe that I have a lot of awareness regarding who we are and why we operate the way we do, and a lot of it has come from discussions on here as well. I can slowly share some of this awareness with him, and do my best to be the secure one in the relationship, as he is heavily anxious avoidant. Less so as time goes on. I feel like the man I am with is a tender, innately kind, intelligent human being who teaches me more integrity everyday. People with OCPD can be intolerant and harsh and can use every excuse in the book to separate from you and try to remain independent, but I still love him just the same. His qualities almost balance out mine. I need more order and structure to life at times and he needs to relax and let go more at times. I disagree, I think we will eventually get our trial at living together, even if he knocks the idea down a few more times before he agrees to try. I’m not denying that there won’t be hiccups, but I feel that he’s rational enough to work through them with me, and understanding enough to handle me feeling overwhelmed. He has already tried sleeping in my bed more often to adjust. Baby steps. I think him having his own room to retire to and have his own space will help a lot, as well as me working three nights a week where he can unwind on his own.

Overall the insights that I’ve gained here here have been helpful, and they’ve helped to reinforce my own beliefs about this relationship. I have often felt my beliefs were delusional, because some were based on feelings and not rational thought, but sometimes feelings are rational idea with the lack of current evidence to back them up.

I will say that I’ve been through enough relationships to know now that if this relationship became hostile I would not stay, and yes I would’ve raised the child on my own had he not wanted to be a part of that. I can see now that he greatly wanted to be a part of it and would want it in the future. Everything just feels more calm and settled now and these posts don’t require the same dissection as they once did. I agree in trying to better oneself and seek help and grow to our ultimate potential, but at the same time, we must accept who are in this moment, and we must accept others as they are in this moment (as long as they do not inflict harm on us or others). We need to be compassionate as much as we are critical. At the moment compassion is working for my relationship. I may seem naive or deluded, but I trust that I have some awareness within my intimate framework. I am always trying for more.

Luz I feel that you are right, that this is about me, my growth and development as much as it is about him, and while I do not feel that we have reached the end of our road and growth together, I am going to take a lot more time to focus on my own path and what I see for myself. I feel as when I continue to do this it will just give me more strength and may give me even more insight into the action I must take in time with him. For now the action I feel is best for me is a wait and see, with a bit of a twist. I am going to start honouring his words and reflecting them back to him in a way. As he says he does not see me as someone for his future, I will allow him more autonomy to carve out what he does see and to show that to me without as much persistence on my part. It will be as simple as matching his energy and investment. I will continue to communicate openly, but I will allow him to take more of a lead or more of a back seat, depending on how he reacts. I think words are important but I do need to see how they are congruent with actions that he spurs on his own. I will make less plans unless he asks to do something. I want to see how he feels when he isn’t simply submitting to me because I’m around, but when he decides “hey where is she, what is she doing?” I agree that he does need to feel that this is his choice and it won’t happen because of an ultimatum or a threat that I will see other men. It will have to be something inside of him that changes and the more I need to keep changing on my own as well. With this I feel time will show what is true. If he said we should break up I don’t want to see you I would agree that I should move forward, but because he is simply staying he can’t make promises, I’m not sure thar this is enough. I know what I will do if he does not invest on his own, but I do want him to make that decision. My decision is to keep pursuing my self development with as much vigor as I do him.

So anyways, while it may seem simplistic in that I stay in the face of a lack of security which I seem to need, and my anxious attachment style is what keeps me bonded to him, forever trying to confirm some insecurity I feel about myself…. I feel that there are concrete reasons to stay as well and many good things between us, and that not all are soaked in unawareness of our patterns and behaviours. Some are good and true reasons.

I feel like I spend so much time discussing the negative aspects about our relationship, that it can be hard to see the positives. and like you said Luz, it’s not clear based on my posts what it is about him that is drawing me so deeply to him.

In many ways he is consistent. He is consistent in that he never ignores my communication or my desire for it, he liked to see me, likes to spend time, he makes the time. He never treats me like an afterthought. I suppose this was a huge night and day difference from men in my past, from the short term flings who demonstrates complete abandon of concern for me and seeing me, to the long-term relationships who allows addictions or depression to excuse why we couldn’t spend time together. He has never let his depression or his occasional binge drinking affect me.

He does express a lot of concern for me and he does choose his hurtful words carefully. I can tell because he spends more time before he releases them, and he always apologizes after expressing them. I have had other major life events affect me recently and he has phoned and been there for me to make sure that I am okay (holding my hand in person, hugging, giving words of encouragement and affection). The past few days since our latest discussion about us he has seemed quite down, having restless sleep etc. I know all of this affects him and he does ask how I am doing and if I am okay.

Like I’ve said one of the biggest reasons I have been sticking around despite great moments of doubt is due to the improvements in behaviour and the progress within the relationship that I feel have been shown. Looking back to a year ago when we first broke up and he declared he could never see us together and I would never be his girlfriend. That day as he told me he was extremely defensive, felt he didn’t owe me a more detailed explanation and he tried to hold my hand but as I cried and started to get angry, he left quite abruptly after 10 mins and said it was up to me whether I wanted to see him again. He was so completely emotionally unavailable and at the time I was dead sure that kind of behaviour would not be acceptable in the man I would be with. Fast forward to another discussion we had in person in the spring of covid last year, I expressed to him what I wanted and needed in a partner. I cried and while he listened he again made light of my crying as something undesirable that he didn’t need to be around. Something changed in me that day, and I began to be truthful with him. I told him if he left again while I was expressing emotion that I would not accept this and he would not be someone I could be around. I said this was extremely rude and immature behaviour and I was not going to tolerate it anymore. I started to ask for what I needed, and to call him out on some of the things that were no longer working. Since that day he has never again acted this way with me, and responds in a mature and comforting manner when I express my emotions or am facing an upsetting situation. This on it’s own is immense progress to me.  Fast forward to a little towards the end of the summer when I again told him i didn’t want to see other people and we were either together and trying or were not. He responded with he really didn’t know what the future held but he was scared of committing. He did not want me as his gf at that time and we should take a break. We took a bit of a break, but he was miserable and so I suggested he date if he wanted to but i decided to be more secure and stated that I would not be and that I wanted to be with him. I started to show him what commitment would look like with me, while at the same time giving him freedom. This seemed to change him entirely, yes because he was getting me on his terms, but he also began inviting me more into his life, family, friends, holidays and began acting as if we were a couple. When pressed about whether I was am his gf and whether we are in a relationship he says that he acknowledges that completely. Contrast back to a year ago when he said I would never be and we could never have a relationship, only something casual where we would not go on dates, or share in any romance (which we do regularly now)…. Hmmm is this someone who is clear about what he wants and sticks to his word? Is this someone I really can take at face value, or is this someone scared, who changes, but needs time to adjust. The more I seem to lay down what I want on the table, the more he seems to move in that direction. He definitely still challenges at first, but it’s like he dips his toes in, sees there isn’t a threat and decides to stay for a while and see what happens. He was keeping his options open for some time there, but has since cut off all seeking elsewhere behaviour and has said he will not be doing that anytime soon. I’m not ruling out that behaviour as something that couldn’t return, but I could not be around for that. Around Valentine’s day that was what I was most upset about, and when i asked him whether he was still doing it, it was going to be my deal breaker that day. If he was I was going to bow out. Same with asking him whether he would move in together. This was something I thought would shock him and yet he’d been thinking about it on his own before I brought it up, to the extent that he’d pictured where we could live and how our furniture would mesh. I do not feel that someone who can’t picture any sort of future with you, wonders whether they could live with you. That is definitely not a move he would see as short term or as a temporary measure. There is nothing he would gain financially or even really emotionally from that move. I mean to say that it would be entirely new territory for him (in that he’s never done it with a woman before) and it would be a move of investment. So to go from saying he would never want a relationship with me, to considering moving in with me a year later (on his own) is progress. Yes, his major fear of what all of that means seems to be ever present. His doubt of whether he’d be disappointed or he’d disappoint me is still there. He still says I could find a man who is more emotional than him and wouldn’t be so afraid of commitment. These are clearly things he is insecure about and feels that I am displeased about when I do bring up the future. This seems to send him into a tailspin because it contradicts that my happiness in the relationship and probably signals to him that I may never be okay with how things are, taking them day by day. In my eyes though, while partly driven by my anxiety, each time I ask, I ask because I have seen changes in him and progress and I feel that the answer may be different this time. Each time his answer is a little different, and has gone from a complete no, to yes we are this, to let me think about the rest. I don’t think he considers anything in a rash manner, but I also don’t believe that he’s operating from a state of awareness about how he feels. This isn’t just an observation based on our relationship, but how he responds to other people and events in his life. He doesn’t seem to connect the emotional dots so to speak. He will mention a negative event in his life and immediately following that event, feel sad, but be unsure of as to why. He is emotionally convoluted still and he would need to do some clearing of the trees, to be able to see the forest.

Just as I have my own struggles and things to work on, he does as well. The one thing he does not and cannot seem to give me is the security of the future, and yet he admits that this past year he has been completely wrong about what he saw for us. So perhaps he’s not sending me the most reliable signals, maybe his vision is a little clouded. I also tend to spend so much time thinking about what it is that someone else sees, that when they tell me what I see, I seem to forget that I don’t have to adopt that as my own vision, that I see something all on my own.

And yet I stay because what he offers me is not anything short of what I would write on the positive qualities side if I did do your paper exercise Luz. He offers me kindness, continued support, reliability in companionship, affection (never withholds that), slowly but surely more expressions of love, consideration for my opinion and my emotions, and we have a chemistry in and out of the bedroom that is hard to find. He is funny and we share a similar sense of humour. This to me is major and I cannot be without that. I don’t easily find that. In terms of long term compatibility I feel that we could share a nice life and enjoy various activities together. The things that remain an issue are the bigger areas of commitment, like living together, marriage and kids. One funny thing is that he always seems to happy about the idea of me getting pregnant. Go figure.

Surprisingly, the depression and binge drinking mostly just affect him and his view of things for the future. Which of course affects me, but they don’t really change his behaviour day to day, or while he is with me. He just becomes a bit more jolly when he drinks. Nothing obnoxious or detrimental to the relationship. He doesn’t do it instead of spending time with me, there is no lack with that habit. And they’re not necessarily deal breakers for that reason, they’re just flags and things I’d need to monitor over time. They’re not extremely desirable qualities no, but everyone comes with something. I suppose the things I’d write on my negative deal break qualities side of the paper would be disengaged with me, no passion, no humor, unkind, uncooth haha, fooling around, no job and no desire to find one etc etc. In terms of whether I want and need marriage and kids, they’re not something I need to have. I would want to be exclusive and share life with someone and to be equally excited about doing that. So it’s really hard to say that he could never get there, as he has demonstrated that he is unsure of what he wants, and he had shown progress even in the face of his own stubbornness to show any at all.

I do understand that you’re trying to help. And I have appreciated all of your help. I still don’t think I am complete denial (I know, coming from someone you think is in denial), I have been trying to adopt mindfulness and other strategies honestly to sort through the muck of this relation ship. Imagine if we took everything at face value, without any consideration.

TeaK, thanks for that latest post. I do think I look for men like my father but my father weirdly enough was extremely emotionally available, yet he wasn’t willing to work on his depression or his OCD. And this affected things for my mother long before I knew about it and eventually my brother. So it could be that sticking around for men in my life that are like him is like trying to help them in a way that I wanted to help my dad with his issues. I got old enough and did point them out to my dad and he would be highly defensive and say “where do you come up with this stuff, you’re only 13?”

It could also be why these men ultimately treat me well, despite their issues, because my dad was very kind.

But I also recognize the limits of trying to help or heal someone else, so I’m not sure that is my true wound, it might be more that I am looking for love that my mother was not able to give at a young age, though our relationship now is very different. She says I love you often and offers me a lot of emotional support. I really don’t know why I stay despite the lack of long term direction. In the past like I said I have been willing to leave men who were disinterested in a future quite easily. This one may be harder because he satisfies everything else, checks all other boxes. I don’t even want to really kiss another man. We still have a very passionate relationship even after a year and a half of seeing each other. It’s funny though he doesn’t say his gut tells him no about me, he just says hes lacking the feeling he thinks is supposed to be there. But maybe tomato tomado. Despite everything I have some stupid voice that tells me we’re tied together and it will be okay. It’s a voice beyond reason, and wishful thinking. It comes during meditation, similar to when I broke up with an ex and my mind said “bullshit he doesn’t love you, wait another month”. That ex took back everything he said a month later and wanted to try again, once I told him I was leaving. I was so serene post breakup that it made him realize he’d said everything in haste. We were together for another row years and I left him due to his depression.

This guy says he’s disinterested in a future and yet his actions completely contradict it, so it’s is hard to come to terms with what he says. I’m trying. Trying to see that I could have a different life, tell myself I don’t want someone who doesn’t want me, and I keep coming back to “he doesn’t know what he wants, he’s lying to himself, he needs time”. What an annoying voice. We both might need to leave each other and yet we both want the other to take the reigns. I guess if he dumped me I’d feel more like I had to move on. I’d still feel that he’d have a lot of regret though.

Well we haven’t broken up. I don’t know what do to with it. We both want to continue. He just doesn’t know, and I don’t know either about the future.