Hi guys, sorry for the radio silence for a while, a lot has happened.

Brandy, yes in a nutshell you are correct, but the therapy was also to decide whether it was her fear and anxiety that is causing this decision or whether or not it is a conscious choice, however the plot has thickened somewhat since then so things have become more convoluted now.

So guys on Friday after a day and a night of silent treatment I decided I had had enough and made my decision to leave my wife. I came home from work and had the talk with her and she broke down, sobbing and wailing, she was distraught as was I. I called her mother so someone could come and take her home as I didn’t want her alone right then and needed to get some space myself. Her mother berated me on the phone, and essentially told me that I was demanding too much of her daughter and that I had no idea what I was asking of her and if indeed I was the one to go through the birthing and looking after the child I wouldn’t want children either. This woman has 3 kids of her own and 3 grandkids and until last few weeks had no idea my wife didn’t want children. She pretty much told me that kids are not as great as I think and that I shouldn’t want them, a bit rich coming from her in my opinion though obviously I don’t expect her to be on my side in this.

We slept apart that night and in the morning we both went to our home and talked things over. My wife begged me to give her a chance to look into having kids, when I asked why this would be any different to the previous month when she was supposed to be doing this thinking she said that she hadn’t really tried as she thought I wouldn’t go so far as to ask for divorce. Now she realised what the stakes are she wants to give it another shot. She begged me to let her try, I was opposed to this at first as the time for trying was earlier in the month but I just couldn’t walk away so I relented.

She has now effectively turned the ultimatum on herself, she knows I am serious, that I love her but that I desire a family. I despise that I am putting her through this as she is backed into a corner but she turned it onto herself so though she is going through pain and so am I she is in the driving seat so I will let her run with it and see what happens. We agreed on setting a date in the future to re-address this issue and that for the moment she will continue counselling, and will do her homework and I will also do my research to inform our decisions. I do not like the idea of an arbitrary deadline for this but she said without a deadline to work with she felt pressured to have all the answers right now or tomorrow and that a deadline would help her relax so I let her call it at 3 years time. So now she is considering the idea of children and has bought books, listening to stuff online and really going all out on it, she seems genuine.

I must confess I am not as happy with this as I am making out on the surface. I would much rather she taken my wishes seriously the first time and actually discussed this, I wish it hadn’t taken us nearly breaking up for her to actually sit and talk to me about it without emotion taking over and it devolving into tears. I am not happy with the idea of an arbitrary deadline and think that 3 years is too long (She originally wanted 5 but that was out of the question). However what I need from her is to be calm and look at all options, to talk her anxiety issues out with the therapist and to know that I am supporting her, I truly want the best for her. She said she wants to try and come around to my side of the issue and I am not sure if I am doing the right thing by letting her but not letting her seems wrong too, I am pretty much out of good options right now, I feel heartless letting it get to this..

I do not think we will go the full 3 years without reaching a conclusion between us, that was just a number to calm her mind. I think we will reach a decision within the year, what that decision is I am not sure of. She already seems aware that there doesn’t seem to be a way out where we do not have to surrender our dreams for the other, she also knows she drove me to making that hard choice and that as shameful as it was for me I chose children and a family. So I am not really sure what I am waiting for right now, am I waiting for her to change her mind of her own will (if you can even say this is her own will, even though she begged for the opportunity to go through this it is still me forcing her isn’t it?)? For her to realise it is hopeless and to give in and accept a mutual but sad end to the relationship? For me to give up on the idea of children and see if I can be happy without being a dad (I do admit it has it’s perks for sure)? Or am I just waiting until I finally feel enough is enough and end it for good this time. Or is she just stalling for time and hoping that by the time 3 years is up it will be too late for me?

What makes this worse is that I don’t even know if I can trust her if she does change her mind. She has promised me that she would never have a child she didn’t want and I think I believe her but if the situation arises how do I know for sure? I do not believe there is any malice in her, but drowning people will drown their saviours in their own mindless panic and I fear she may do anything to appease me if there are no alternatives.

We have gotten over the initial shock of this now I think, instead of being desolate we are on the surface almost back to normal except that we talk about this subject a lot but nothing new comes up. We both feel numb I think, exhausted by it too. Still no less confused by all of this though.

Oh and get this. I told my boss a couple of weeks ago what I was going through, I broke down and just wanted to say I am doing my best but I am a bit all over the place right now, I just wanted to keep her in the loop. Two days ago she called me in and have me a very passive aggressive telling off for being lazy and distracted at work, it was thinly veiled in a veneer of enquiring as to how I was doing emotionally. She told me off for pretty much nothing as any time I have had off has been using my paid leave and my workload has not diminished at all. She said I was never at my desk the past few days which was true but that was due to abdominal cramps due to constipation brought on by stress and I had taken laxatives to help (Sorry TMI I know). I was and am so angry at her, such a petty person it really upset me, totally not what I needed. So now I am having to be extra careful at work, even skipping going to the toilet so I do not appear to be dodging work.

Sorry for the ramble and sheer size of this post, as I said a lot has happened. I am not necessarily on here for answers as I know I am a stuck record and feel like I am being silly or over sensitive. Please know this forum has been a godsend to me during all of this, I may not always respond directly as I have a lot to report on but I always hang on every post and give it all serious consideration. Thanks for your help.

Thanks for all of your help so far guys, it is really appreciated. Anita I have been giving your observations some considerable thought and they do explain my current situation quite well.

Today my wife is not speaking to me. Earlier this week she told me her family would be coming to visit and that on Sunday we would go for a family day out. At first I said ok but then I had to explain that actually no I am not ok in going out with the family and pretending everything is all ok and I am fine, I am not fine and it is not ok.

She did not like this and she stopped talking to me over text, then when we got home she didn’t speak to me other than to say yes no e.t.c. She went to bed very early and left me downstairs all evening until I went to bed. She got up this morning, didn’t speak and only said bye when she left the house. She didn’t even tell me that the road was icy over text message like she normally does (I ride a motorcycle). She has yet to message me at all today so there’s been zero contact, just giving me the traditional silent treatment.

Normally I cave in and get angry at her, she then cries and I give in to her but not this time. She also told me that her sessions at the counselor has now been changed to once every two weeks. When I asked why the counsellor had done this she informed me that she (as in my wife) had decided on her own to reduce the sessions. She did not ask me what I thought about this, or make a decision together, just told me this was what she had decided. So now it feels like the agreement we had when she goes to counseling has been forgotten and the silent treatment seems like plain manipulation to me.

I think this is the last straw. I feel bad for not making it longer but I do not see what she is offering in this situation, I am doing all of the work and have come up with all of the ideas as to how we can proceed. She only agreed to counselling because I said it was the only option I see open to us to keep this discussion going. Now she has begun to wane in her commitment to that. Her silent treatment to me and her confusion as to why I won’t just pretend to be ok for her family makes me think she actually doesn’t understand how much pain this has caused me. She says she just wants me to be happy and I believe her but I think what she means by that is she wants her own way and wants me to be happy about it, she doesn’t seem to have actually made any actions to try and make me happy about this situation, in fact she has been moody and passive aggressive in the house.

I think I have decided I cannot do this anymore and for both of us to have a chance at being happy we need to call this done. I have tried to make things work but we want different things.

Whether I have the courage to say this is another matter though. I am scared of what she will do, and I am scared of what her family will say to me. I love these people and I am about to break their daughters heart. It feels remarkably unfair.

Last night things came to a head a bit. Everyday has been torture for us both, we ended up having a sobbing session in the morning and I left the house to think for a few hours. The hope was that counselling would help my wife change her mind about this or at least look at it from a different perspective but we are both so devastated by this that we are unable to think properly. We both want to dig out heels in and it is not being very productive. It doesn’t make sense as she has only had the one session anyway so it is too early to expect results but we can’t both be in disagreement and continue on together. From the moment we both drew our lines in the sand it made it impossible to live together in any sense or normality.

I realised that I am putting the weight of the world on her shoulders and she is not coping well with it. My solution is to just accept her decision as it is. She stated her terms when she said she did not want children, I was not ready to walk away at that time so I tried to push her to change her mind. That loaded too much onto her and took responsibility away from me, so instead I now have decided to accept that staying with her would mean not having children. I am not ready for children myself right this moment so there is no urgency. So for the now I have said I will take some time to come to terms with the idea of not being a parent, I have always had a strong desire to be a father but never believed life could be otherwise so I will consider my options over the coming months and decide truly what is more important to me a childless but possibly happy life with my wife or taking the chance on an unknown life with an unknown partner and the chance of children.

I have decided to do this as it puts the responsibility for my happiness on my shoulders alone, it makes me solely responsible for my choices and is not blaming other people for my situation. It means I cannot bring this up in the heat of the moment or use it as emotional blackmail on my wife (I don’t think any relationship could survive that kind of imbalance). I am not perfect and I know I would do this when I am angry or upset but I have asked her to remind me of my promise should I try this crap, I am better than that and she deserves better than that.

But it also means that I am able to walk away if I decide I cannot go on like this, I stressed that this is a massive thing for me to give up and it will take time for me to properly grieve and really consider this change in perception. If I cannot accept the loss of the chance of being a parent then this is truly the last straw and we will call it a mutual end to the marriage and she must accept that in the same way as I have accepted her decision. It really seems to me to be the only way we can move forward.

I will admit there is a bit of a surreptitious hope that with time the counselling will help my wife to readdress her decision to not be a mother whether biologically or adopting however this new agreement means I am not allowed to feel betrayed by her if she does not change her mind. This agreement changes the default expectations for our future and while there is still room for both of us to change our minds the default is now that we will not have children.

I am not happy with the idea of never being a father, but I am also not capable right now of walking away from my wife and we are not capable of staying together under our current conflict of expectations so I think this is the last hope for our marriage and the only way for us to truly respect our vows to one another. I am not okay with not being a parent but I love my wife enough that I am certainly willing to give serious consideration as to whether this desire is more important to me than my relationship with my wife. While I do think she has caused all of this turmoil due to a lie of omission for 8 years I believe our love is strong enough that it deserves all the chances we can give it and if it does not survive this conflict then at least nobody has the right to accuse us of not trying.

Hi Michelle.

Those are good points and good questions. I hadn’t considered that sharing the problem could make it harder for my wife. I tend to be an open book so feel better for sharing but I think I will moderate that in future. I will have to talk to my family as that’s really how I cope right now. I’ve been breaking down every day so I really need that therapy. I’m trying to get the counselor to do some solo sessions with me as I’m struggling a lot with guilt and feeling incredibly hopeless but she has yet to get back to me from by message a couple of days ago.

I’m really trying to get to the bottom of whether my wife is just scared or whether she really doesn’t want kids however I really am thinking that it’s a choice. Whether by fear or not I do not think she will budge, she seems adamant.

I’m going to see whether counseling will help her make up her mind but if I actually stop and listen to her she seems pretty made up already.

We will see. Every day is a challenge. My wife says it is like I’m leaving her for another person who doesn’t exist yet.

My biggest worry is that im trying to do the right thing but I don’t really know what that is in this situation. It feels like everything is mixed up.

Hi guys, so I was intending on having the talk with my wife yesterday, I chickened out.

But I had a free day today so had a chance to talk to another counselor who helped me out.

My plan is to have this talk tomorrow. I am going to ask her to think this over, to talk to a counselor and to get back to me with an answer when she’s ready. If not having children is a matter of preference then that’s fine I respect it but I also have a right to walk away in that case, as hard as it would no doubt be for both us.

If she is scared I hope to encourage her to explore why and see if we can alleviate those concerns. My counselor explained that maybe she has been living in a state of fear but if that’s the case this fear is now bleeding out and is influencing the relationship and me too which is not ok.

My biggest worry is that this is a conscious choice and that we won’t be able to work this out. I respect that it is her body and would never dream of telling her what to do with it. However not having children affects me too and if she insists on this choice regardless of my feelings as to how this affects me I think that would be very bad for our marriage. I hope to god it doesn’t get to that, I do not want to lose the love of my life. I’m very worried. I actually had a breakdown at work yesterday I think they all think I’m going crazy. I really need to sort this out, I don’t know how long I can keep this under control.

Thanks for your help on here guys. It really has helped me process this. I hope my marriage can get through this.

Thanks for your help guys, this is such a hard time for me, I appreciate your support.

I’ve decided to give myself some time to make sure I am certain in my decisions. I do not want to flush away what we have on a whim so will give it a month and see where I’m at then.

My mother and sister think it would be a good idea for me to speak to my mother in law about this and hopefully try to get some insight as to why my wife is so anti-child. However I am not so sure. My mother in law has no idea that her daughter doesn’t want children so I don’t think she would have much input. I also see no good coming of it and it could end up worse than if I’d just opened up to my wife originally.

That’s a good question about triggers and what started this. Well a week before Christmas my wife started this thought process by having a minor breakdown over it. But that just put the subject in my mind. What really kicked it off for me was more complex.

A friend of mine visited our home and was telling me about his job. He’s in the military and though he’s in a supporting role his job sounds very interesting. It sounded interesting and as I don’t like my current job and have had some real bad luck career wise I figured ‘you know what why not have a go at his line of work’.

I floated this past my wife who said she would leave me if I did. She stated the danger, the distance and long tours as her reasons. I get that but I thought that why not as we have no kids or commitments and my wife hates her job too. Why not join up and have some adventure, travel a little with the job (I am aware it’s not a holiday fyi, but I figured what’s to lose). My wife point blank said no just at the idea of me joining, in never told her about the rest of my pipe dream. I get that it is difficult being apart, or that it is difficult to move aways but what do we have to lose? Why not take a chance?

This got me thinking about stuff we said we wanted years ago. The plan was to move to Canada, do what we have to do but to get over there. We said we’d do it for years and I would have but my wife always had a different reason it was a bad idea. It was always too risky for her, now it’s off the table entirely but I never had a say in when that dream died, it just became clear that there was never going to be a right time for her. But life is messy and maybe her dream changed, a disappointment but not a huge deal. My dream was Canada with her, without her it wasn’t so appealing.

Then I thought of the kids stuff. I thought we wanted Canada, that didn’t happen. Now with the kids stuff she says she doesn’t want that either. Now the military thing is a massive thing to jump on her so by no means did I expect her to be enthusiastic about it, it was a semi serious musing. But it made me think if she can state ‘if you do this I’m out of here’ about a job why can’t I do the same thing about having children? I had never considered not changing her mind about kids but when she stated what would be a deal breaker for her it made me think what is a deal breaker for me?

By no means would I say any such thing out of spite, neither did my wife. She was merely stating that her idea of being a wife did not involve long periods of time separated and that she wouldn’t stand for that. But likewise my idea of my life as a husband involves children. Other than safety her argument is that me leaving for the military now would be changing a core dynamic of our relationship after we had already established it, it was not what she signed up for so to speak. But in the same vein not having children was not part of our initial agreement so likewise I feel cheated, hurt and confused.

This in a roundabout way is what triggered these thoughts I am now having. At first I just thought would not having kids be a deal breaker. Then I wrote down why i wanted kids, what I wanted from that and what not having that would mean.

I want to teach my kids like my grandfather taught me (didn’t have much to do with my dad, long story). I want to show them hunting and fishing. I want to show them how to play pool and play video games and d&d with them. I see my nephews and neice now and though they love me as their fun uncle (I take pride that though they each have two uncles I am the favourite of all of them) they obviously don’t see me as even close to how they idolise their fathers. I want that.  I struggle to understand why others don’t want that. I get that the times listed above are interspersed between long periods of changing nappies and tantrums but it’s gotta be worth it, most people do it, many of them more than once.

Then I got thinking about time frames, when did I actually see myself having kids? It was always a ‘not yet’ thing, something in the future but actually when I began thinking on it 31 is getting close to crunch time for me.

This path then lead me here. Do I wait a while longer and hope the love of my life changes her mind again or do I decide enough is enough and put my line in the sand? I haven’t considered a life without this woman but I also haven’t considered a life without kids either. Logic tells me it is better for both of us to call it a day but my love for her tells me to ensure that she isn’t just scared. I don’t necessarily want tot’convince’ her to have kids, ii just need to make sure that she isn’t throwing this all away due to fear.  It all so very confusing and so very final. :/

• This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by BB.