what did you feel, I wonder.

I sadly can’t explain it, but if i remember correctly, i had this before many times, but it was more extreme, i remember one night (it usually comes when im sleeping) i woke up in the middle of the night, and i had it, i felt so weaken, so light, like im not in control, yet so rested, it was both good and bad, but i kinda like it, today i also had it, but i was dreaming and it was less extreme

 

then I must respect your desire to not change. If I try to change you in any way, then I am disrespecting you.

I never thought about that in this way, yes i (think) that’s true, i think that when someone tries i feel disrespected

 

suffering was not as bad or unique as yours

No i actually don’t think that it was my suffering that’s unique, but more likely my way of handling this suffering and my genetic, i also should say that i have a friend (by friend here i mean someone i talk to) he has kinda the same thinking, im only what i was created, nothing more nothing less, he also has GAD, and when i told him that this is a thing (he didn’t know) and told him about the cure (medication or lifestyle changing) he told me “forget it, im gonna suffer from this until i die, and it ruins everything for me”, i think that the result of me (end up with a desire to create my own philosophy and values and beliefs) is what made me unique, not the suffering, and i say unique based on the evidence i see

 

your suffering has been so unique/ abnormal that it has led to your unique/ abnormal extent of apathy and desire to not change.

The reason why i don’t like when they compare is because the present of me, the person right here, has tried everything they said without any benefit, and i hated it so much, everything that benefitted them didn’t do anything for me (e.x walking for a whole year made no difference to my mentality or added anything to my life) by difference i don’t expect happiness, but from what the people say, it actually matters to do, for me i see that if i did it and didn’t do it, its the same, the only difference is the long term benefits,  and the thinking that it helps (placebo effect).

 

ask people for help and engage in discussions with them when the result frustrates you and makes you feel guilty

Cause i have the hope that i would find people that understand my point and accept it, long shot but still i had to try, also in my first post here i was bored and sleepy, and i thought that my post gonna shock people (i like when i imagine thier pov lol), i also never asked for help, i seem like a guy with a problem, but im not really (by that i mean that the problem has no fix, so its not a problem by definition)

 

I was thinking about her. I think that she deserve a thank you from you, for meaning well and for posting to you with zero arrogance

Her post was rude to me, she said “i was suicidal and depressed for a long time” she disregard my argument as depression, and assumed that my life looked like her life once, and that this and that helped her, she was very respectful in what she said, and she meant well, but does she deserve a thank you? No, i don’t think anyone deserves anything, now i don’t blame her for her replay, i understand that this is how she was bulit, and im just not like that, but i won’t say thank you without actually meaning it, at least not online, when i can not say that, unless it matters to you, then i can flix my values

 

 I could tell by her post that she spent a good amount of time and effort so to make her post clear and thorough.

I understand that, and i appreciate people like her, very nice and well intentioned people, actually i love people like that, makes me warm.

Dear antia.

 

I woke up today, i had a lot of dreams and you know that feeling when you dream so much and wake up feeling werid, i touched my noise and it felt like it the first time, i know what the dreams were about, but i don’t remember any, but i remember feeling love, having intimacy.

 

I read and re read your replay, im glad that you shared your morning with me, i don’t want you to think that i don’t read or care about what you say or you in general.

 

No need to argue with me about it

Sometimes i just add a comment, sometimes its silly comment just to let you know that i read that thing you wrote, but from now on, assume that if i didn’t replay to a specific line from your post, it just means that i had nothing to say, and when i try nothing comes to my mind

 

I’m gonna try to be as honest as I can”- good, me too

One question comes to my mind, and if its too personal ignore it, what exactly made you angry with me? So i can avoid such thing in our future conversation, i actually avoided asking you any personal question, or anything that seems personal, intentionally, i remember that when i first talked to you, you were very strict about those, and i respect that

 

but it doesn’t mean that it is really is wrong for you to be unemployed: you decide for yourself.

I think i mentioned my problem with jobs, especially in iraq

 

as long as your behavior that results from your thinking is not asocial

I try not to harm people with my individuality, unless they require me to do something i don’t want to do (e.x my mother wants me to finish my school)

 

if your questions are clearly stated, and a person answers you unsatisfactorily again and again, stop asking that particular person

This is one of the reasons of labeling people as norimes, because it would give a good explanation why those people disregard my question and lifestyle, and its a good explanation, and i agree with you.

 

 I didn’t mean that you, Murtaza, is wrong. I did and do suggest that arguing is useless.

As i stated, i believe that there is some people that can argue with me and maybe provide a better logic, thus i will either admit my lose or just lie to myself (i perfer the first because its easier) and from experience i did admit my lose many times.

 

Select who you are interacting with instead of interacting with everybody and arguing.. and arguing.

True, but i like showing norimes my argument and when they accept it/ignore it silently, it only proves my point, and its somehow a norime check, lol.

 

I didn’t notice this in your thread.

I didn’t spend any much real time and effort on the people that showed a lot of norime sign did i? Teak had a point, and i wanted to see where it goes, she sounded just like my therapist with a bit of an upgrade

 

if it looks like the person means well, send them a short post saying thank you, a polite acknowledgement- instead of ignoring them or replying rudely

If we are talking about me being rude, you know how much i get offended by thier posts and replies, how much i consider them rude? Why should i take thier rudeness? I can’t say thank you to someone who i don’t appreciate thier help, and i don’t see the point of being nice with holding what i really want to say, i won’t be that guy, who holds what he want to say because its nicer, it only hurt me because i won’t like myself very much then.

 

it is not a good idea to bring up suicide as an okay item to consider on a public forum

I never said it was a good idea, one part of my qualities is to say things people don’t wanna hear, to tell them the real things that happens for some of us, those people that don’t have much voice, people won’t hear them

 

Because this is what I believe- I will not participate further in such discussion on your thread/ in these forums.

I didn’t mentioned it for discussion, i already know your opinion, and it doesn’t actually matters anymore.

 

I feel some anger now because you are arguing again!

Im sorry, i was only showing you my pattern of thought, how i see freewill, and i gave a real life example

 

You don’t even need me to participate in the argument, you imagine what I would say and argue with what you imagined I said

I consider the other party responses and what he might say, i assumed that you gonna say that so i prove my point in one post, if i asked you and we go back and forth, it would take a while

 

seems that your anger was triggered by my mentioning of Free Will

I was very calm, i only mentioned it to support my argument against freewill, since you seem to think (which is my fault) that i only use it as an excuse, i won’t say that i don’t, i will provide a soild argument to why i think freewill doesn’t exist, but i will only do that after you say that you want to participate in this argument, and don’t view it as “argument” its more like both parties understanding the other points and give a better explanation, its growth

 

The term free will triggered your anger because when a person X uses the term, believing that it exists, what it means to you is that X is telling you that you are to blame, that it is your fault.. it’s the guilt you referred to before

It didn’t triggered me, i will tell you what triggers my anger (the ones i know and aware of)

 

when a person misunderstand me, and when i try so hard to make him understand but he won’t because of some moral issues or some belief he made, its more frustrations then anger, but i feel both when this happens

 

When a person claim something about my life without evidence (aka you don’t love yourself, my life is similar to yours)

 

When a person think he is allowed to tell me what to do or what to think or  feel, what to believe and what to value

 

I ask that before you reply to me (if you do, I never expect it, but would like it if you reply)- please calm down

In our current thread, you never triggered my anger, and i won’t response to any of the freewill subject until i hear your permission.

 

seems to me that what triggers your anger when someone says “I was like you”/ when another person compares themselves to you, is that it feels like the person comparing is negating you,

I never thought of it this way, but today when i thought about it, i may knew the answer, when a person compares his life to mine, he usually is got over this period, so what i imagine when he start advising is (im better then you, i got over this, i just did this and this, you can do that if you want), actually it mostly like this when a person compares and start advicing, the superiority thing bothers me, he think that he is superior then me and allowed to tell me what to do, and that i must not know whats best for me, correct me if im wrong, and this is a new thought so its more like a hypothesis that i might change, but from what I’ve heard its always like this “i was X too, you just need to do this and this (give examples that worked for him and thinking that it must work for everyone)” by that i feel guilty for not doing X, and i remember that i did X long time ago, and it didn’t work, and that i think and feel different from them, and that there is no proof that he is like me, and even then he can’t advice me.

 

It is like it is either you are valid or the other person is valid

I think when a person start to throw silly advices on me, its just projecting, the part that bothers me that he/she think he must be right and this is allowed to say, in my world its very rude to tell a person what to do, especially if you only know what he showed to you via internet

 

How do you know when it’s there for you, can you tell.. if it goes away, was it ever there.. when it returns, will it stay?

It depends on the definition of love, if its a feeling, then i don’t pursue that, i meant that i somehow get a girlfriend, this is what im trying to kill, and i had to experience so many painful things to prove to myself that no such thing exist.

 

One of the reasons that i don’t pursue the feeling of love, because its not under my control, i only foucs on the things i can control, feelings aren’t, but i welcome them when they come

 

Let’s see what happens, think of this as an experiment: I felt love for you, then I didn’t, then I did again,

I actually don’t think its mysterious at all (my opinion, i respect yours) i think that when i feel love because of an image and a belief, and when i don’t because this image or the belief start to change, (e.x i saw that sara is lovely and felt love for her but as soon as the “she doesn’t love me back” belief start to kick in, i lost the feeling, as it should be) i never love anyone who doesn’t love me back, and yes i control such thing, lol, i don’t know but its one of my powers you can say

 

But this very thread shows that you’re miserable. And that’s because you have suppressed that little boy.

So its not about what i have, nor where do i live, no im miserable because of few words i tell myself.

 

step away from the idea that love is unattainable for you

Ok i just did, guess what? I still don’t have it, it doesn’t matter how i see my life, its still gonna be the same, i still gonna be so lonely, so distant from everybody, hate fitting in to a Garbage Society

 

This is it for me, im done, i had what i wanted from this conversation

You can fill that longing by being a loving, compassionate parent to your inner child

I already did that, but the hole is still here, and i don’t believe that there is only one way to love yourself, i do it my way, the way i see it fit, not whatever you say, not whatever anyone say

 

You can fill that longing by being a loving, compassionate parent to your inner child

And i would suppose that there is only one way to be a parent to this child, and its a man made way, i don’t care how many people got healed by this way, i already did best for myself

 

What you actually said about your inner child is that you’re aware of him but you suppressed him

You don’t know what im talking about, you don’t know how i lived needing love everyday excessively, so excessively that i wanted to remove this need from the origin

 

You’re not loving him by suppressing him. You’re not giving him an easy life by making him stay hidden, by telling him not to have feelings, or hopes or dreams.

Oh yes because you know my life to judge that, you know how its like living in iraq with dreams and hopes, to have anxiety and shame and gulit as your primary feelings, but no its fixable, you just got to workout,

 

you gonna teach me how to love myself? I can’t continue this conversation if you didn’t drop the idea that i don’t love myself, it just makes me mad how you blame me while you don’t even know me, i can’t do this again,

 

Actually, you can provide the love he needs. I told you how to do it

I just talked to the guy, he told me that he want, an understanding loving mature female to use her for his own needs

 

I know you haven’t given him what he needs, because you believe the best option would be take your own life. A loved and cherished child wouldn’t think or feel that way.

Sure you know, because of the few post i did here, now you have the key to my life, and allowed to advice and give opinion, did you even hear what i wrote above, im gonna say it here, imagine your child has cancer, now imagine that cancer doesn’t go away, and he lives with it for the rest of his life, now imagine your child telling you, no, begging you, to have mercy on him and end his life, because he is suffering and he don’t like it here, but you let him live anyway, and everyday, he is begging you to end this life, without any hope of this cancer going away, now you, let him live, and not only that, you telling him its his fault for havig such horrible life, for not loving himself enough so he likes life, you blame him for his illness, and you blame him for not trying to live, for wanting to die, is this sound like unconventional love?

 

So for the sake of argument, lets say i did what you asked me (assuming that i didn’t do that) would that change anything? Will it change my goals and desires and beliefs and values? Especially when im very fixated to not change them, and its called OCPD, i don’t care if i wasn’t diagnosed, my sister have it, and i have it,

 

Please teak, you make me very mad, i like you, i really do, and i don’t want to stop talking to you, even if i just talk to you with whatever, but i don’t want to do this again, to be misunderstood no matter what reasons and arguments i provide, this right here triggers my hopelessness, no matter what logic and how much evidence i put, you will never accept me or like me, you will never be okey with my decision, not because im wrong, but because you don’t like it, and i wish it wasn’t that way, i wish there is a place for people like me in this world, i wish that it wasn’t so hard to be loved by people, you don’t know how lonely i am, and you telling me how to love myself, i did, and i do, and i want people, i want that hole to be filled, and you think that i didn’t because i didn’t pursue those things, that if i did loved myself really i would satisfy those needs, but those needs require me to change my values and goals, the very thing that makes me, myself, to betray myself, it only happens when i hate myself so much, that i would want to betray every thought and belief i ever did, and live life normal, to satisfy my needs.

 

Can you understand this? If no so i could save your time and mine, its sad though, that every person i talk to either kill me with his wrong advises and suggestions, or just go away, i believe that anita was right, how could she be wrong? She is nearly an angel, and who im i? Just a nobody, i know its my fault, and i can’t be sad, but i want to feel sad about this, she represent all the nice people in the world, i lost them all, and its my fault, i wish heaven is real, i would imagine all the good people together, and maybe there is a place for me, to filled with this warm

That probably left you feeling like they don’t care about you,

They don’t, my mother only uses us to satisfy her needs, at least my father didn’t care to use us, was waay out of this world

 

and thinking that no one cares about you

And no one does, not until i provide something back to them, not until they see benefits, and usually its based on societal standards

 

didn’t take you in her arms and caressed you (or did she?)

Nope, she doesn’t understand the child needs for such things

 

It could have given you the idea that the world is cruel and unfair and arbitrary,

And it isn’t? If so i would like a proof, a proof from my life, something i can see and feel

 

You didn’t even dare to wake up your mother when your stomach hurt

I should say that its not entirely her fault (and its not mine either) because as a child i cared for her too much, that i didn’t want to bother her

 

and therefore, love is “too unreal” for you, and you end up apathetic, unwilling to live. Because what’s life without love

Nice conclusion, though its wrong, thats not the reason why love is too unreal, i told you that i don’t follow my programming, that i ignored the thought of (you don’t deserve love), its too unreal because of where i live and my values and desires and goals and beliefs, so even if i manged to fix that belief, i would have to fix all of the above, you really think that’s possible?

 

It’s not your fault

“That’s your choice” implies it is my fault and that im responsible for my own misery, i dislike this idea you formed because its simply not true, and the evidence of such is that i developed apathy just to protect me, a strong apathy, and im proud of myself for doing so, i look back at the past, i see nothing worth living, i look at the future, nothing, the present is acceptable, under my rules, i respect myself for being so intepented, physically and mentally, and i love myself maybe too much that i don’t want to see her suffer for no reason, or because of an illusion created by people like you, an idea that may or may not happen, hope

 

You deserve better.

Following that logic then my mother deserve better, and my father deserves better, almost everyone deserves better, and what does that gonna do? Nothing really, just makes you have an idea that you inheritly deserve something without any effort, i don’t think that’s a nice idea to have, not true either, love is something you buy, and im not talking about money, im talking about prices we must pay to get love, everything has a price, and for me its too expensive, so i just don’t bother with it, the reward is little and the price is too high, without the illusion, without false hopes, it doesn’t seem worth it, it would be the same life with something extra and a lot of payment to do, payments i hate to pay

 

You deserved to be loved and cared for and comforted

If that’s true then where is it? Oh i must pay a high price for that? Doesn’t sound like i “deserve” it

 

It’s not your fault that you didn’t get the love and care you deserved. It’s not your fault that you were harassed. It’s not your fault that you were afraid of the dark, and that your stomach hurt. None of it is your fault

But its my fault that i developed a strong apathy ? You know apathy is funny because any solution for it requires the opposite, caring, its a paradox, i need some kind of motivation to drop my apathy, and there isn’t any currently, probably will never be, unless somehow i see enough evidence for not needing this apathy, but i really don’t think so, in time my apathy only grow more and more, medication helped with that by lowering my dopamine (which were motivation come from in the first place), im only afraid that i developed it so much that i would care enough to end my life, and just endure suffering for no reason but basic survival, like an animal

you can tell me a little about your childhood

Well lets see, i remember liking videogames very much, and used to spend hours and hours playing them, though i couldn’t do that usually because of my big brother he would take it away from me whenever he liked, my father didn’t care, my mother didn’t do anything, i remember sometimes my brother beats me for silly reasons, and my mother carelessly stop our fight, i also remember watching a lot of tv, but my big sister didn’t let me do it comfortably, i remember i used to watch my favorite tv show (avatar the last airbender) and she would come in the middle of the episode and switch the channel, i sometimes beg her to just let me watch the rest of the episode, usually that doesn’t work, i remember that at the age of 10 i used to get a lot of anxiety, pain in my stomach, and wake up in the middle of the night, and its dark (no electricity) i remember i would sometimes wake my mom, and all she do is warp a peace of clothing around my stomach, sometimes i remember it happening again and again, and she got botherd by it, so i wouldn’t wake her up, i used to pray before i sleep i don’t wake up at night because its so scary, sometimes i don’t and sometimes i do, i would wake up with no desire to sleep, and would just stay in my bed for few hours, sometimes i would get thirsty but i don’t get up since its very dark and scary, i remember that i decided to imagine stuff before i go to sleep, to make me fall sleep easier, it did worked, there was a couple of fantasies i imagined, i will mention few, and if you want to know more ask away, i used to fantasize about being with katara (from the last airbender), the theme of my fantasy always included hurt, wether done by the one i love or outside forces, though i always perferd the first, there was a funny feeling when i get hurt by someone i love and be at thier mercy, though they would love me too in the fantasy, as i got older i learned that this is too unreal, and usually hate is the result of being hurt, not love, i had a hard time fantasizing since i would put a scenario where the other person loves me but hurt me at the same time, i remember that (katara) used to remind me of my childhood friend, a female named noor, i loved her, or i thought i did, but we moved to a new house and we lost contact, i remember that the happist days were in thier house, she had a brother who was my best friend, i remember we used to play yugioh, i remember that sometimes when her brother bother her i would stop him, i used to stay in thier house in the day time, i remember that before we move to another house my foot was hurt, noor got me an ice, and put it on it, i never seemed to forget this, i didn’t know love exist, i didn’t know that i love her, but when i grow up and watched movies, i wished that i get back in time and love her, to feel that thing, i used to imagine for hours for this to happened

 

I worte a lot, if you want me to continue just say so, also im not sure how do you want to do this? Do i talk about details? Do i write the whole thing in one paragraph?

I like how you response to my messages with ease even though i sound bit aggressive, thank you for that

 

I think that true love should always be two sided, if the other person doesn’t appreciate you like you appreciate him, then he isn’t for you, you will have to move on, its funny because i never got bothered from this side, external things always seemed easy, when i knew that she doesn’t love me, i just moved on, like it wasn’t anything, i was a bit sad for few days, im bit sad now honestly, i missed up with anita, even though i know i didn’t do anything wrong, not directly, but i feel like i should’ve said different things, its always a mystery to me what to say and what not to say, i feel like its must be me, cause honestly she never said anything wrong or bad the whole conversation, but it doesn’t matter now

 

Since you offered your help, and you asked about my childhood, what exactly this help gonna be? and what exactly do you want me to talk about? Im just curious, if i saw it worth it i might try it, though i only have one condition, i won’t do anything physical or mental to “fix” things, i don’t like when people tell me what to do and not to do, i know best, and i don’t like them when they advice me, this condition seem like it blocks the help, oh well

I kinda like you teak, i miss this kind of people, the funny thing is, i lost them before i even have them, how fast did that happen, maybe there is an afterlife afterall, a community of kind people, a job that’s isn’t a waste of time, a reduced fear and anxiety, a partner, a different mindset, that would be heaven, too unreal, this motivates me to do it, but i develope more apathy along the way when i don’t, im in this hole deeper and deeper, its too late now to fix, and we should close the whole hole