So back to that question. Even if the two didn’t change, one (or both) could become bored. If not – well, maybe that is that rare case of pairs celebrating their gold or emerald etc. marriages. Most often, though, throughout the course of one’s life, a person changes. If the other stays the same, then the question is how that first person’s change is compatible (and that goes both ways) with the other person? Both partners may change, then again, the question is how compatible they become now with each other’s changed self? Sometimes still compatible, sometimes not. Then their paths would diverge. I visualise that as two lines that have been interwoven, but now either run parallel to each other or one (or both of them) goes into a different direction. Sometimes people meet again and rekindle their romance; that would be shown as an intersection and the interweaving begun anew. That is how I now see it in my mind’s eye, a relationship between two people, and not just lovers, but also friends, good acquaintances, etc.

Okay, so here is a question, what do you think makes up a soulmate? I think that my wife and I are linked for whatever reason. She is my soulmate, during our 13 year hiatus when we had zero contact, she always had a place in my subconscious. She was the bar that every other woman I met/dated had to live up to. I none of those individuals even came close to making me feel the same as my wife. Sure there were some who had I had intense physical connection with, and some who I had great social chemistry with. But like my wife and I talk about we just fit, She is the key to my lock, and I ultimately believe that she can help me become the best version of myself. She tells me that I do the same for her, and I really believe her.

So here is the conundrum that I face, together her and I have fought many different obstacles, and this new one is just that. Another obstacle. The question that I ask myself, and not lightly, is am I willing to throw that connection away because she wants to explore her sexuality with another man. This is such a difficult question with so many layers. I know that you have said you would not be willing to share, and I would like to explore the reasons why in hopes of gaining a different perspective.

I have conflicting thoughts running through my head. What if by exploring the feelings that she has, increases the happiness in our relationship by 10. That would be beneficial to both of us. I know that there is also a risk that it could actually destroy our relationship. So my question is in what ways could our marriage be ruined by this?

Perspective, I enjoy taking pictures, It pleases me to take my camera out on a 4 hour hike in nature and just get lost. When I get home from one of these hikes, I have reduced my stress, re-centered my outlook on life, and am a much happier person.

What is the difference in the pleasure that I receive from my hike, and the pleasure one would receive from another person. If everything is out in the open and there is no deception and the trust is not being broken, Is there really a difference. (this also assumes that the physical/intimate relationship that my wife and I have isn’t affected, which is another one of the risks)

Just a few questions to try to narrow down some of these things that I am trying to address.

I hope you had a great evening, take care

Matt

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Matt.

X,

Thank-you this has been super therapeutic on a number of different levels.

In one way I am able to  focus on defining the challenges that pop up in my psyche, and at the same time sort of emotionally detach from them. It is a weird feeling to try to describe those emotions that carry so much angst, but when typing them out it feels like I step outside of the emotions and get a third person view of them. I see the entire situation very differently when I discuss them here, and kinda scary that it has forced me to question certain beliefs.

The other is that it is comforting to read about the lessons learned from other people. Hearing about the struggles that you had, the not so perfect relationships, the inner dialogues. Everyone has their struggles.

that one can’t really, in all honesty, swear to LOVE somebody. Feelings come and go

So I think this sums up how I will be trying to move forward in life. And I think it can also be bigger than Feelings come and go. You can’t swear to LOVE somebody because no one is guaranteed anything. For so long I have lived my life in the past and the future. If I learn to love myself, my wife, and my family with everything I have, RIGHT NOW. Than that is all I can ask of myself. I need to learn to let go of the fear/insecurities of what may happen tomorrow, and forget about what I have done or should have done in the past. That is the path that should free me from the angst. I fully understand that path is going to be difficult and that I have to allow myself to fall down every now and then.

if you don’t feel comfortable about talking about this to your partner, it is cheating (even if no physical act took place), if not – then it is not.

I totally agree with this statement, and will say that my wife and I have had some of the most amazing conversations about our relationship in the last three weeks, that we would have never had in the past. Open, honest conversations about some really tough situations.

I read that women shouldn’t be afraid of their men watching porn (unless it becomes highly addictive, they say it is an epidemics of sorts now around the world). Maybe the reason for that is the one that you are describing – that for you it passes quickly and you are back to loving your wife the same way.

Is there a double standard lurking there, I mean should I be afraid if my wife watches porn? Does it pass quickly for women that they can be back to loving their spouse the same way. I only ask these questions, not to justify behavior, but to try to get to the bottom of why I think certain ways. Through all of this, one thing is for sure, my ideas of sex/love/pleasure/safety/marriage/trust/communications have been turned upside down. Maybe not turned upside down so much as I am actually taking the time to truly define my thoughts on these subjects

I am not sure I understand what kind of “closeness” you mean? Especially, “while being in an intimate relationship”? And “without it being physical, ie. sex”? Are you asking about platonic love?

There are some to whom I am completely neutral. Those would be (or are) good male friends. No sexual feelings added, none whatsoever. Proof (at least in my eyes) that friendship between men and women, no matter what they say, is possible.

I think my question boiled down to….Could you be in an intimate relationship with a man, and also have a best friend who is a different man. Yeah maybe platonic love. On the surface of my thoughts, I would think there would be a conflict of interests with this. But who am I to tell another person, whether it be my wife/daughter/son, who they can and cant be friends with. If my best friend was female I would throw a fit if my wife ask me to stop talking to her. I know you should be best friends with your spouse, but does that mean that you can’t have more than one best friend. I have about 6 college buddies who I would call my best friends, they all provide me with something different, but I know how each one of them would act.

But again, it passed in a couple of hours, a couple of days at most. And my daydreaming hardly ever has sex in it, it is more about the physical touch, like hugging or cuddling or talking about something holding hands

That’s funny because my wife said something similar to  this one day when we were talking about Jay. She said all she really wanted to do was make-out like she was 15 again. Whereas my male mind equates that to leading to other things, she was quite positive that it would end there, maybe a walk on the beach or just sitting in the car.

lso, I might have that thoughts, be a bit gloomy about it, but when I saw him, when I saw how he eagerly he was looking for my every gesture, how he was watching my every glance and every step, my mind simply refused to believe that a man behaving like this around me could be intimate with another woman. Have you ever seen a video of how in courtship the male bowerbird will dance to the female in an attempt to attract her? If you haven’t, do, because that was the exact impression I had when my ex was around me.

I just watched the video and I can say that I remember doing that for my wife, that is actually how we met. I was head over heels for her the minute I saw her when we were 18. I danced to some 90’s booty hip hop in front of her and her friends in our dorm parking lot. She says she remembers it so vividly. I was definitely a dork and probably made a fool of myself. You know I lost that feeling for a long time in our marriage. It is odd, and goes back to the feelings come and go statement, but I totally feel engaged in our relationship again.

Slowly I discovered that I didn’t need a man to be there to catch me if I fall

I think I need to write a whole post on this one and explore more of my feelings about needing someone there (my wife) to catch me if I fall. It will probably serve me best if I could get to a point where I don’t need her to catch me. The biggest thing for me would be to understand that I will be all right if no one catches me, but trust her when she tells me that she wants to be there to catch me. This is the first time dwelling on this, but I can feel like this is where a lot of my insecurities come from. My mom passed away when I was 26, she was 50, I wasn’t really that young, but I was on the cusp of my adult life starting and it hurt that she wasnt going to be there to provide me with the advice and tips that a mother gives you. I will try to explore this more in depth in a different response, could get way too long

Maybe, one of the astounding discoveries was that it is never about us, it is always about them. Love IS in the eye of the beholder. We get attracted to this person and not to that person, not because of what this or that person is, but because of what response, what reaction that person triggers in us. And that reaction is triggered (or not triggered) because of our problems, complexes, insecurities, etc. Of course, chemistry plays a part, too.

what I am reading is that Love expands and wanes as an individual changes. I think that Chemistry plays a huge role. Did you know that when a woman is on birth control, her pheromones change. Someone did a study on women who got involved with a man while they were taking birth control and what happened to there relationship once the woman stopped taking the birth control, there preference in men change.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/birth-control-may-alter-physical-attraction-single-women-pill-more-likely-date-311164

My wife and I share a strong chemical attraction. Her smell, her presence, her look drives me crazy. I have a unique view of this because my wife and I took a very long break between when we first met and when we got married. We had absolutely no contact during that break but both of us say that none of the relationships we had during that time had anywhere close to the same physical/chemical attraction as we have together.

Back to your question, my soul-searching and reading for the past two years brought me to believing that there absolutely must be certain boundaries. And it is best to set them, to know what they are and to stick to them. But I am not sure I am a good counsellor on this one…

I hopefully can disagree with this point in one way, I agree that boundaries need to be set so that expectations can be made, but I also think there is room in any relationship where those boundaries can be re-evaluated. I feel like I am at that point right now in my life as well ass in my relationship. Those boundaries and expectation are evolving and I need to find what my new boundaries will be. And I thank you for helping me see both sides of these arguments and having these great discussions.

Wow that was a lot, haaaha…..My brain is tumbling and I probably wrote a lot of nonsense, but I will have to comeback and reread my response to see where I may have erred.

Until next time enjoy your day.
Matt

X,

Yeah he sounds like a study in narcissism, and I am certain there is a hole there that needed to be addressed and filled but he chose to take the easy way out, when those feelings welled up, throw it out and start again. I think we can all agree that feelings and emotions can suck and hurt to a depth that is honestly beyond belief. They can also provide euphoria that is beyond belief. I still vividly remember the emotions that my wife and I shared the first couple of minutes after they brought our daughter to us from the nursery. Tears, smiles, laughter, fear…take them all roll them up and smack me in the face. I can see how someone could become addicted to those feelings that come about in the beginning of any relationship

If you ask me, for me, I would prefer to know about it. Because if the man swore to be mine and only mine, but then went ahead and had that encounter, it means that he is not to be trusted. And I need to be able to trust my partner 100%.

I feel the same way, I think that the trust aspect is where the hurt comes from. Now can broken trust ever be fully reconciled in a relationship, or do people just lie to themselves for the sake of love. The reason I ask this, and here is where I am having a hard time putting my thoughts into words.

So why is sex with another person the deal breaker in a marriage? ( I am not sure that is the correct way to put it) I don’t know, I have never cheated on my wife, but I have met women who I was physically attracted to. On the same note I have also watched porn, and there have been times when I fantasized about having sex with women who weren’t my wife. Should these be deal breakers? Maybe… But afterward I still loved my wife the same way. On the negative side; because I didn’t disclose to her that I had these fantasies, Is this cheating on our marriage? IS it in fact the definition of marriage is the active ability to withhold desire for the sake of your spouse? I am not trying to talk myself into an open marriage, but I am trying to find why suppressing feelings could be positive for a marriage. I know plenty of people who keep some fairly intense things from their wives and husbands, and from the outside they have great marriages. Is that a better way to live life then to be honest about the feelings of desiring other people and acting upon it if everyone is on the same page. Does that make sense?

So what did he provide you during your relationship? Do you think looking back that if you found out he was still being intimate with your wife you would have broke everything off, or just found a way to deal because of what he provided you?And do you think that if you find a person that provides you the everything that you need right now, they would be worth doing anything for?

These are interesting ideas that I am not sure there are answers for because like you said we are so complicated. Oh one other question, how close do you think you could get to a person of the opposite sex (while being in an intimate relationship)without it being physical, ie. sex?

Have a Great night,

Matt

Anita

I totally agree and have been setting expectations about how we will be getting away from my Mother in Law. There is definitely a strong co-dependence between my wife and her mother, and it is a very toxic relationships at times. My Mother in Law lost her husband, is currently on disability, and generally is a toxic relationship for my wife. I have seen it a number of times, where my wife looks to be turning the corner and figuring things out, our relationship starts getting better, and then out of nowhere my Mother in Law will bring up something about my wife’s brothers that totally de-rail everything. I know that it will be difficult to separate the two of them, but my wife and I both know that it what is needed.

Matt

Hi, Matt,

I thought I might need to express my word of caution to you – a caution to make sure you are NOT trying to convince yourself that what you are doing is the right thing. I did that far too often in the past – being afraid of something and desperately wanting something, my logical mind would subserviently come up with a myriad of ideas why I should be doing this and not that. At the same time, deep down, in my gut, I knew it was not the right thing to do. The more I looked at a problem from different angles, the more I would become lost as to which angle was the right one and what perspective to follow.

I am 100% convinced that if one wants to prove something, to justify something, one’s mind will stop at nothing and all the reasons for will seem fully valid and worthy.

Just something to consider among other things.

X

X,

Thank-you for the response, and there are valid points there. Deep down in my gut I want my wife,  I want to grow old with her and be the person she needs. You are right that when you look at the various angles of the problems and solutions it can be overwhelming. I have been there and done that a lot, to the point where I did almost lose my wife and family.

I will ask you if you believe that relationships and marriages evolve over time? The thing that I am currently struggling with is what the picture of my marriage should look like. I fight with this one because the picture I look at is split down the middle. One side is the happy times I spend with my wife that is the picture of a great marriage. Laughing/Joking with each other/affectionate/loving/spending time with the family/ sparkle in her eyes/deep conversation/silence/longing/memories/cooking with each other/touching/ all of those things that make me grin from ear to ear and when I look at her I think how did I get so lucky

The other side is my insecurities that cloud the future, I get stuck trying to get rid of that side of the picture. I know that even through all of the hard times that my wife and I have had, we share a very special bond and that I need to spend more time praising that bond, and less time worrying about whether that bond can be broken. I know that even though these responses may be cluttered and all over the place, they really help me define my thoughts and find ways to make myself a better person. I realize that marriage is hard, and that sometimes I make it way harder than it needs to be because I unfortunately try to control the future.

It hit me last night driving home from work, I work 3rd shift, so I drive country roads at night. I hate deer on the side of the road, and because of the weather the deer have really been thick lately. Lat night the were everywhere and I was just hawking the sides of the roads seeing all of the glowing eyes. Well, I drove past a group of them on the right side, and when I focused my attention ahead of me, there was a deer standing in the middle of the left lane as I drove past it going 60 mph. I didnt see that deer until it was at my drivers door, split second, a few feet to the right and he would have been sitting in my lap.I got home and kissed my wife and daughter on the forehead and realized that it doesn’t take much for it all to go away. Writing out my insecurities helps to overcome them and makes me realize how foolish I am

Have a great evening and thanks for the response

Matt

Hi Matt,

I just now read your post. I see that you received alot of replies. I have not read them, but I will give my short perspective. I could not do it. If I were married, I could not share my husband with another woman. The thought of even thinking about my ex with another woman kissing or having intercourse makes me nauseated, or wanting to have a panic attack. I feel God made marriage between one man and one woman, an open marriage is out of the question, to me it’s not a marriage, just a roommate situation, no matter if they are the love of your life. I couldn’t even think about it. Its It’s all or nothing for me. I can’t or won’t share my husband. It’s wrong.

Eliana,

I appreciate your outlook on marriage and will tell you that I have really taken a deep look at what defines a marriage generally, and what defines my marriage specifically. Relationships are strange right and each one is unique. The way I look at it is like you or your partner having a best friend who is the opposite sex. Have you ever heard of that? I know quite a few people who share this, even to the point where they truly love their best friend. So you can have love for two members of the opposite sex, albeit two different types of love. Would you allow your partner to love a member of the opposite sex?  Then there is the intimacy portion of relationships, this gets harder for me, although I have had some very interesting discussions concerning this. It is a subject that can get into some very frank discussions that I think are better handled in person. It is a very personal discussion concerning happiness, pleasure, growth, and exploration. I am still not sure one way or the other, but it has allowed me to venture into a very uncomfortable zone which I am learning is quite refreshing after all is said and done.

My wife and I love each other, we are raising children together, taking care of family members, and are trying to live a fulfilling life. The fact is that when you are married with a family you are constantly sharing your spouse. You share them with their career, with the kids, with their hobbies, you end up sharing them with everything that makes them happy and gives them pleasure. So this really all boils down to sex, intimacy, trust, and communication. I am not trying to say that you are wrong, I am just talking through my thoughts and feelings. This is an on-going evolution that I am going through, maybe it is something that I end up disagreeing with, or maybe not. I just havent gotten to that point yet.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks

Matt

Hmmm…..Rewards in it for me and experiencing well-being. Now those are very interesting topics that are worth exploring. I have always been the friend that everyone goes to when they were experiences difficulties in their life. Everyone from my best friend to a college buddies wife. Everyone knew that they could sit down with me and talk about whatever was bothering them and I would listen and the conversation would stay there. I have always been a excellent listener, It is something that I take pride in. Whether it is work or my personal life. On the flip side of that, and something that I have just recently started to deal with is my ability to talk about my feelings and emotions. I was a Navy brat and moved around a lot as a child. I had friends but because we moved a lot I didn’t have those really close, tell your soul kinda friends when I was little. I figured out how to process emotions inside my head, which I think is the root of some of jealousy that I hold onto. I know it creates havoc in my marriage because my wife would get mad because I would keep everything in. During arguments I would get to a place where my brain was full or my emotions were all over the place and I wouldn’t know how to deal so I would just withdraw. I needed time to process and clear everything out. Not really a great way to deal with things.

SO back to the rewards and well being. I always felt satisfaction and reward from being there for my family and friends, including my wife. Which is why I was hurt so much and couldn’t understand my feelings about the pills and depression. I felt like I couldnt help her, like I was failing, and I would beat myself up for that. I had the wrong impression that if I couldn’t help her than I shouldn’t deserve being rewarded for anything, or be concerned about my well being.

That all changed a couple of years ago, I had moved my family to Florida to help my Inlaws deal with my Father in Laws Stage 4 cancer. I was living in Maryland still working and travelling, and I would spend a week or so every month in Florida with the family. When I was in Maryland I was drinking to hide my sadness and stress, and one Saturday I woke up in the worst pain of my life. I laid on my bathroom floor all day by myself working through this pain. It wasn’t just the physical pain, it was the emotional pain of what had become of my relationship with my wife, and missing my family horribly. Sunday morning the pain subsided a bit and I worked through it, but on Monday morning I showed up to work and my coworker told me that I needed to go to the ER immediately. I guess I didn’t look that great. Went to the ER and turns out I was passing gall stones. Emergency surgery on Wed to remove my gall bladder. I was alone that entire time and it really had an impact on me, I think that and the fact that I had basically been on a 5 day fast. It is amazing the clarity I gained from that. I scheduled my first doctor appointment in 15 years. Sat down with doc  who told me I was 40 pounds overweight, wanted to put me on heart, cholesterol, and some other prescriptions, and said that I was a walking disaster waiting to happen. It was hard hearing that but I was determined to get my health back and worked for about 2 years to fix everything. I dusted off my camera and started hiking and taking pictures again, I quit drinking alcohol, and focused on figuring out how to sleep better. it was a big hill, but I climbed it and am now healthier than I was at 30.

In the chaos of a new family, stressful work, and a hard marriage, I lost how to take time for myself to make me happy. It is really a chore for me to put myself first and I continue to struggle with that even now. I am getting better with it though and have found great pleasure in doing things I enjoy, like taking pictures and painting. Work in progress  but is at the top of my list now. In order for people around me to be happy, I need to be happy

Onto the second part, I’m not really sure how I proceed. Thinking through it, things could go bad because if she experiences that guilt free feeling, and then turns around a tries to function with the family and feels only guilt, that could be an opportunity to just pull away. I am scared, but need to tell her that she has failed in the past, but that is the past. She has an opportunity to start fresh every minute. I try to encourage opportunities for her to succeed in all areas, and tell her all the time to just take a look at our kids and how wonderful they are, I feel that it just falls on deaf ears. She doesn’t take when I tell her all of the positive things seriously and only focuses on the negatives. I recently wrote her a list of 100 reasons why I love her, it went over very well for a few days, but then reverted back to the “everything is all my fault, and I am a horrible person attitude” It is very difficult, and writing about it hurts, it’s actually put me in a mood. I just love seeing the smile on her face in the morning, and the twinkle in her eyes. It is two different people, when she is taking the pills the twinkle disappears, I can tell she is just squashing all of those emotions.