1) join a club that plays to your debator type strengths such as toastmasters or a debating society. These people may be more like your tribe than others.

I don’t think it’s my “debate” personality [btw the society I’m talking about originally is toastmasters], but the fact that so many people are content with being “less than” (not me, “less than” they are capable of). I’ve recently joined a cycling club (it’s kind of an up-market obsession for people who are very fit) and everyone seems to be exceptionally friendly. Maybe its because most of them already wear Swiss watches…lol

Let’s look at this scenario: you are showing up to a social occasion with a luxury Swiss watch and gem stoned cuff-links. A person seeing you wearing these items is not likely to think: oh, I want to talk with him, I want to be friends with him! He may think: oh, I wish I had that Swiss watch!

First, this club is mainly professionals (it is not really a social occasion but that’s beside the point). I wear them because I think they’re “cool”, their well crafted and because I’ve earned them. I know that many of my colleagues actually draw attention to their watches etc. my “casually” bring up the fact that they’re wearing a Rolex in a conversation. I dress for myself, not to show off to others. [I love wearing fine fragrances because I’ve learned so much about the differences between EDC/EDT/Perfume and top notes and bass notes. It has been my learning and so I wear it].

If it inspires others to want the same material success, then I think it’s great. I have since learned that the person I asked to coffee with, has (in his 40s) registered for a part-time college degree. It’s not a great school, but if he’s been inspired to achieve a better education (you cannot separate my influence from the context) then I think that’s great.

You judge others on their credentials (education, career and luxury) and see yourself as above them. Then you turn around and judge them for judging you based on that same credentials.

No, I don’t I just know that in many of those respects I do excel. I may know that I’ve had a more fortunate background and while I notice their academic background, they judge my personality – for me there is a difference. Because I am judging “what” they are not “who” they are and they are not extending the same courtesy to me.

I see Mark really wants a response, so I’ll try:

Would you rather speak than listen?

I think I’m a very critical listener. I prefer arguments (they don’t need to be fact/real) but they must be supported by analytical thinking.

Are you more judgmental than compassionate?

Byron Katie tells us that being judgemental is the one thing all humans are expert at, perhaps why all spiritual masters have asked us not to judge. Assessing whether something is backed by sound reason requires judgement. What does “compassionate” even mean Mark? I think I’m able to sympathise but I’m really not someone to empathise with someone.

Would you rather be right than wanting to understand?

This is an easy one. I have spent most of my adult life being prepared to be wrong and finding the errors in other’s arguments. This is the very basis of the scientific method. No, I don’t have a need to be right but I do have a need for gaining a broader perspective than I have already.

Would you rather find differences than ways to connect?

Certainly, ways to connect. But without having to sacrifice my personality to achieve this.

Do you look for ways to love rather than separate yourself?

I’m sorry Mark, that question is a bit too right brain for me. I have no idea of what “ways to love” means in reality. It seems to pie in the sky for me.

your question “am I condescending or are they insecure” leads me to believe that you’re not mindful of your own behavior

Are we really ever fully mindful of my own behaviour? Look I’ll be the first to admit that I have a strong personality and that scares some people. I’m a “badass” You have a voice that commands attention when I’m being assertive, I challenge authority, I’m not afraid to ruffle feathers, I’m highly self-confident.

If you studied my personality using the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), you will find that I have the kind of personality that is (and I’m quoting here from the test’s handbook):

• Very Argumentative – If there’s anything Debaters enjoy, it’s the mental exercise of debating an idea, and nothing is sacred. More consensus-oriented personality types rarely appreciate the vigour with which Debater personalities tear down their beliefs and methods, leading to a great deal of tension.
• Insensitive – Being so rational, Debaters often misjudge others feelings and push their debates well past others’ tolerance levels. People with this personality type don’t really consider emotional points to be valid in such debates either, which magnifies the issue tremendously.
• Intolerant – Unless people are able to back up their ideas in a round of mental sparring, Debaters are likely to dismiss not just the ideas but the people themselves. Either a suggestion can stand up to rational scrutiny or it’s not worth bothering with.

When considering personality, some elements are phenotypic (deliberate efforts to change may succeed) but some are also genotypic (its that unchangeable part of who I am”.

First, apologies for not being in contact (I’m managing yet another relocation to another city/province).

What I’ve noticed is that many of the members make judgements about me, without even having had a conversation with me.

I’ve discussed this with the club president and he says that when he first met me both he and his wife thought I was condescending but “as we got to know you better we appreciated the person you are more and more“. Yes, first impressions are lasting ones, but being judgemental is probably just as bad (if not worse than) being condescending.

I am not sure how you know how the members judge you without talking with them.

I joined this society primarily to make new friends and yet every time I reach out to someone I sense a reluctance (or blatant) to get to know me better.

My take is when I think or feel a person is condescending is when they talk about themselves without expressing any interest in me; when they talk about how great they are (accomplishments, skills, talents, experience, etc.) when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand or if they do, there is no humility; when they try to one-up me when I talk about myself; when I feel that they are not really listening to me and more focused on how they can start talking about themselves instead.

So, curious – in my view, a good intellectual argument should stand on it’s own merit, without needing to be backed by stating your credentials to be able to make such a case.

Look the truth is that I AM superior to them in a number of ways (I’m better educated, more worldly traveled, more experienced with current affairs, more financially stable). However, while I don’t think that makes me a superior/better person, those elements of my personality do come across when a discussion occurs.

I’m not one to say “Look because I have a Ph.D. I’m right” but I will call upon greater life experience in an area that answers an issue in a perspective they’ve not thought about.

Though for someone as allegedly confident and secure as yourself, it is unusual to be upset by such comments as these. Is it the rejection from this guy specifically, who you had from your perspective invested time and effort in and hence surprised it was not reciprocated – or a feeling you are not really accepted in the wider club?

No, I’m not “upset” by comments. I know that people will always judge me and their judgments of me (if negative) really don’t bother me. But I’m getting older and I’m really thinking about whether I will (ever) find “my tribe”.

I would suspect it’s related to “I know (for a whole lot of reasons) that I need to be more sociable, make the first move, show interest in others“. That would be a good place to start, what are the ‘whole lot of reasons’?

One of the common features (and this is often hidden from people at first and normally only revealed when some kind of trust is formed) of highly successful people is that we often have had to endure incredible personal hardship. For me, it was (among others) being raised by a mother who is mentally unstable (she has an obsessive-compulsive personality disorder) this means I had a childhood bereft of emotional abuse, which I had to work through in therapy. From this experience I an avoidant attachment style, where I am afraid to let people close to me.  With this awareness, I know that I need to take the initiative in initiating relationships.

cite=”Mark” I am curious what is your response to my post.

Imagine all the people…….lol

No seriously Mark, this is a question about living in the world, not one about not being of it.