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JayJayParticipant
It’s a very hard decision to make, and I wonder if you have hoped, for years maybe, that things would just get better. I feel it for you.
I hoped the same, but I eventually had to make the same decision, when my children were aged 20, 17 and 10. The two eldest understood why I left, the youngest found things really difficult for a long time. Looking back, I regret not staying until the youngest was grown up enough to understand why I left. But having said that, my situation and yours is probably totally different. Yes, the lack of respect was there, but he wasn’t a bad father.
For a while I did just what Inky above suggests. I went my own way as much as possible, got my own friends, got on with my own life as much as I could. That helped me to cope with the situation at home. It was incredibly difficult when I did eventually leave, much harder than I had thought it would be.
Does your husband know you are thinking of leaving him? Would he improve or change his attitude towards you if he knew you were thinking of leaving him?
JayJayParticipantThank you so much, Anita. I agree with all you say. The biggest message that comes across from your post is to ‘be true to yourself’, so that is what I shall do.
It has been very hard for me to get my head around all of this. At one point, I really thought I was losing my mind! So why would I ‘be nice’ and turn the other cheek to someone who made me feel that way? Now that you have pointed it out, it makes perfect sense that I should ignore them both, and not be nice and polite to them, should we ever meet again.
I will carry on with the visualisation of walking away and saying nothing. If anything, this also helps me to ‘walk away’ from the obsessive thoughts as well. It’s working, and I am feeling much happier in myself, and more accepting of the situation.
Now perhaps I can work on getting back into singing and playing my guitar. For some reason, I have had a block on even picking up my guitar since this happened, last July. I have simply not felt like singing or playing. Maybe that was initially the shock (you don’t feel like singing much when something like that happens!) but I never seem to have got back into practicing my songs since then. I have thought that this part of my life would return if I didn’t push it, and just patiently waited for it to return by itself, but it hasn’t. Now I am not obsessing so much, perhaps there will be the space and peace of mind for this part of my life to return to me.
Thank you once again for your time and patience, and for all your advice.
Blessings,
Jay
JayJayParticipantOnly you can decide the right path to follow. It sounds from your thread that you have reached a fork in your path and need to make a decision about whether to carry on the way you always have (and accepting that this may not get better) or to take another road.
Have you tried all the other little paths along the way, like marriage counselling, or anything like that? Would you like to mend your marriage if it could be done – or have you tried everything?
Anita is right in saying that it is already affecting your children and yourself by carrying on along the same path with no change. So I am wondering if there is any change that can be brought to bear to save your marriage or if it’s too late for that. And what age are your children?
Jay
JayJayParticipantUmmm food for thought there, Anita! Yes, being nice to them would make them feel better about what they did. But you are right, it wouldn’t make me feel better about what they did!
This is one of those situations which might never happen though. It’s the obsessive thoughts and trying to control the future when you can’t really, that is bothering me so much. You can’t control a situation that hasn’t happened yet, or which may never happen.
I think I shall go back to what we decided I should do earlier, I think, which is to ignore them both, should we ever meet again. That scenario has already been visualised and has brought me calmness of thought, as there is no more obsessing over what might happen if we ever did meet again. Like I said, it’s possible we might meet face-to-face in the future, as we may go to the same music festival. The other visualisation, that of being nice and just saying hello, etc., *before* I walked away, is nearly as good though.
It might be simply the way we have been brought up – to be polite, to always speak when spoken to, etc. To not lower yourself to the same level as the person who has been nasty to you, and not let them see that you are hurt or wounded by their actions. A sort of don’t give them the satisfaction of knowing they have hurt you.
I think it was the not knowing what I would do or say that was really the torture for me. Since our last conversation, I have been a lot calmer, and not thought about them so much, not imagined what I would say, etc., as I had already made my mind up, with yours’ and Mia’s help, to ignore them both.
JayJayParticipantHi! I’m back from the short holiday I took with my sister now. We did a lot of talking, which is a good way to talk through a loss of the kind my sister endured. The loss of a couple of friends, in comparison, doesn’t figure very largely!
We did talk about the situation with L. and J. Sis said it would be better just to greet them like you would anyone else you hadn’t seen for a while. ‘Hello again. Good to see you’, etc. And then walk away. She says that would prove that you had moved on, and had truly forgiven them, rather than not speaking altogether, which would imply that you still hold a grudge against them. Thinking about it, I would rather be nice than be nasty to anyone, so what my sis suggested might be better. Any thoughts?
JayJayParticipantwow, very insightful, I agree with what Anita says above too. 🙂
JayJayParticipantThanks, Anita! And thank you to Mia too, for her input. I appreciate all the help and the friendly and constructive comments from you both. 🙂 I will let you know how this goes and how I am feeling in a week’s time. I’m going away for part of next week, with my sister.
MY sis lost her eldest son late last year, he was only 36. 🙁 So for a while I’ve also been helping her getting over that, if such a thing is possible. I’m feeling pretty drained of energy, what with these happenings last year and caring for my parents, both in their late 80’s. We are only going away for part of a week, as we both are carers for my parents and can’t leave them for long or go very far away… but we both really need a break right now. 🙂 We have another carer in place whilest we go away, and do nothing but walk the beach, and paint paintings – and eat and sleep! Heaven!LOL.
JayJayParticipantHi Luli,
I do think it makes a difference that you have only known him a short while. Like PoppyXO, I think he has indeed rethought this relationship and is trying to let you down gently. It certainly sounds that way.
I also think you should give him space. You have your own life to lead, so don’t be constantly at his beck and call every time he wants your company, don’t jump every time he asks for your time and attention. It will make you appear needy. It’s selfish of him to expect that you will just be there whenever he needs your company, and you will be constantly hoping for more than just friendship. Which may never happen. I would give him time, occasionally, as any friend would do, but not all of your time, all the time, when he is calling the shots. Like Anita said, no casual sex either!
I hope this helps.
JayJayParticipantMia, you are not the only person that has deliberately made themselves unattractive to men in order to avoid them hitting on you.
But was it hate, or was it simply fear? I wouldn’t blame you at all for being fearful of men, after what you went through for your first 20 years. That will take a lot of getting through before it’s all firmly placed in the past, inside your head, and you can move forward into a future that is not filled with suspicion and fear of men.
I am in a similar place. But at the age of nearly 60, I am firmly set in my ways, I think! I haven’t had a relationship (apart from that one friendship that I thought might go somewhere, on my thread) for over ten years now. And that experience didn’t exactly help my expectations that I would ever find a partner, as you know. Like Anita said, it is the human condition that we will always want to be in a relationship. Even though I was treated very shabbily, I still hope that one day I will meet someone who is compatible with me, and there will be a fulfilling and happy relationship.
JayJayParticipantHi Anita – yes! x-ray specs would be good! LOL. I think I am just too trusting with others. I trust them to be honest with me and I trust them to tell the truth. I did assume that L. was indeed both honest and truthful with me, if not with others, but her actions with regards to this situation are obviously that she is not honest and does not tell the truth! Not with me either. Although I think she may have lied to herself about how honest and truthful she was with myself and others.
I think that’s what annoys me more than anything, the fact that I was taken in by her lies and deceit. We had great times together for years. It wasn’t until she wanted something that was mine, if you like, and just walked right in there and simply took it, with no regard for my feelings, that I saw her for what she really was – a selfish, sycophantic parasite with no regard for anyone else except herself.
I have felt a lot happier and stopped obsessing so much now, thank you for that. I have decided that, should we meet, I will simply not speak to her (or J. either) and simply walk away. Now I have made that decision, every time I start back on the track of what I would *like* to say to her, I just tell myself to stop it. ‘Just stop it, I know what I am going to do should the situation ever happen, so I don’t need to keep on about it inside my head all the time.’ I have imagined myself in this situation, previously it would involve me saying an awful lot, to both of them, and some really bitchy nasty things. This is not me – I’m not like that! Even though I would like to say those things, I am not going to. It would serve no purpose other than to bring me down to their base level. So my viualisation now is to simply walk away and say nothing. It’s working although I know I have a long way to go before this obsessing is truly gone from my mind.
Mia, it amazes me too! You are correct, L. had known J. for only maybe seven days! And those days were not all in the same week. He tagged along with us in his RV. for a three days to join us on a holiday we were taking together back in May last year, and then tagged along again to the small folk festival in July for four days. So he hadn’t known L for longer than seven days in total. It is beyond me that anyone would take in someone they haven’t known for long, but I suppose he was gullable, he said that about himself once.
JayJayParticipant“”It leads me to think that she used this strategy with J and succeeded in only a week or so! I am thinking she is likely to continue to be successful with him, based on her past success with you.””
I agree. It’s possible that he will never know that he is simply being used. The weekend before she moved in with him was when we were at the small folk festival. J. had asked if he could tag along, and I didn’t have a problem with that – he was in his own RV. My sister and one of her sons was also there, so there was a small group of us. J’s first ex-wife came with him!
The only thing I worried about was that L. might feel a bit left out. It was me who felt like that, only at the time, I didn’t know why. The strategy she used was to act like a little girl. She even plaited her gray hair to appear even more child-like! She contrived to sit next to him, between J. and myself, at all the concerts and was lingering behind chatting to him after the concerts. Looking back, I can see now that she was flirting with him and was going all out to get him. I didn’t see it at the time, only looking back. You don’t think your best friend will do anything other than be friendly to your intended boyfriends, do you? I don’t think J. had any idea that L. was after him. She knew an awful lot about him through me. At some point she must have told him about the ‘situation’ with her ex, and exaggerated it. They must have exchanged phone numbers.
So we come back from the Festival, and he sends me a text… thanking me and all for the lovely time. The next week she is moving into his house, having told him (this comes out later in an email from J.) that she is in physical danger, actually in fear of her life from her ex. So J. goes over there, waits until the coast is clear, and takes her and all her belongings over to his house. She must have been packing her things all week before she made the call for ‘help’.
I know for a fact that her ex. would not have hurt her. They had been together for 20 years. I knew him for all that time too, and he was not a violent man. Moody and depressed at times, and a compulsive hoarder as well, but not violent. I know she hadn’t been happy with him for a few years. He was surprised when I reminded him that he was once the man sitting outside, waiting to rescue the fair maiden, while her husband’s back was turned. He didn’t know that had been the case – he simply thought they had agreed to break up. That was a lie from L. as well.
The only opportunity she got to get a break from her ex. was when she came away with me for holidays. She had been ‘scouting around’ for a possible replacement at a rally we had attended together earlier in the year. This came out later when a couple of the single men there had said she had been sounding them out, asking what they did for a living, whether they had their own house, stuff like that.
It’s awful to think that she has deceived so many people. Has broken so many hearts, and all for her own selfish ends.
..sorry about this post being in blue, cant seem to fix it! 🙂
JayJayParticipantOn another forum, I usually post a link for the song for today. This is usually something uplifiting and happy.. I find just searching for a song which is uplifting and listening to it sort of sets the day off the right way… and the others on this forum have said over and over that they appreciate me doing this. I have been posting a ‘song for the day’ for over 10 months now, and haven’t repeated myself once. So many songs! It’s hard to pick just one that is truly me and there are so many different me’s!!
I also write my own songs! I even like some of them 🙂 LOL.
JayJayParticipantHi Joe! Another artist here!
I work mainly in acrylic and mixed media. I love to create ‘one of a kind’ art, with lots of textures and special effects!
I’m currently learning to emboss thin metal by hand, so that I can incorporate these pieces into my mixed media. I also doodle a lot just lately.
I find art very relaxing and absorbing. I’m hoping to start up an online shop soon. I do exhibit my work in exhibitions arranged by our local art club, but could really do with selling more of my work to a wider audience.
JayJayParticipantIt’s not good seeing one parent “over loving” and the other “not wanting to love at all”.
…But is that simply the way you ‘perceived’ things to be with your parents, or they way they actually were, Mia? when we are children, we make up our own minds about how people are and why they behave like they do. And that is not necessarily the reality of the situation, but simply how we saw it as a child, through our child’s eyes.
I often wished my parents would separate, as, through my eyes, they didn’t seem to get on at all. The conclusion that I came to was that my mother was ‘trapped’ into a marriage with a useless, hopeless man, who used her as a servant. that was around the age of seven, I think. I used to think to myself later, in my teens, ‘for goodness sake, why don’t you stand up for yourself!’ in regards to my mother. Both of my parents are essentially selfish people though, so there were bound to be arguments over who was right or wrong, and who was going to win the arguments. And by waiting on my father hand and foot, she actually made him dependent on her. It could have been a method of control in itself.
My parents are still together, so despite the fact that my mother continually gives out the message that ‘all men are useless’ she is still with her useless one! Both myself and my sister grew up, left home, started our own families… etc. My parents bought an RV and went traveling the continent. They didn’t get divorced the moment there were no children around. So the only conclusion I can come to is, that is the way they ‘get on’ with each other, that they like the constant arguments, and that is their way of getting along. That they both love each other is obvious when one or the other of them is ill.
What I’m trying to say essentially is, that the way we might see it through the eyes of a child, is not necessarily the truth of it, it’s the way a child’s mind tries to make sense of it.
I feel bad about how you had to look after your father when your parents divorced. You had to assume the role of being his mother/carer and take the place of your own mother with him at a very young age, with a father who acted like a child. Like Anita has said, it’s like you were yourself married to your father and even though this experience happened a long time ago, you are still carrying that experience of that man with you into you present life. It’s understandable that you are wary of or don’t trust men much, based on how you were treated by your father.
ETA: I also think, like Anita has said, that you need someone to talk this through with. A competent and qualified counsellor or phsychologist who can work with you on this aspect of your past… It’s a lot to work through all on your own.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by JayJay. Reason: added a bit more
JayJayParticipantHi Anita. I also wonder if she has jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire! There was a lot of similar personality traits (and not good ones!) between J. and her recent ex. But I think that she will put up with anything that J. does that she doesn’t like, including his depressive phases, because she has a roof over her head and his money to spend. So she will make the best of it, just as she did with the last partner, and her husband before that… until she finds someone she thinks is better than what she has right now, and then she will do the same thing again. I can’t help feeling very sorry for her and the way she depends on others for her own happiness, and how she thinks a man – any man – would be better than no man at all, or spending some time trying to find the right man, instead of just jumping in and hoping for the best. I suppose it all depends on what you are looking for in a partner. L. only has two – a man must have a house of his own that she can live in, and he must have money.
You are so right, appearances can be so deceiving. Before this happened, I would have said that L. and myself were so alike – I would have said we were like two halves of the same person. I would have said that our likes and interests were the same… we even dressed alike! I now realise, of course, that L. was simply imitating me, liking the same things I did, and doing the same things I did, simply because she didn’t really have any likes or dislikes of her own, no personality, so to speak of. And an ultimate people pleaser as well. I know they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but I was truly duped into believing that we were alike. I see now that it was just that she imitated everything I did, perhaps because she wanted to be like me. I wonder who she will take her cue from now?
I heard through the grapevine that L. and J. were attending the huge folk festivals last year. Now, I have always hated places that are too crowded, and I could never afford to go to these events, even if I did. Before this happened, L. would say the same thing, she hated them too, and for the same reasons! But now J. is paying for the tickets, it seems she can’t get enough of them. J. is ten years older than both of us, so around 70 years of age. He was struggling to keep up at the last small festival he tagged along to with us, I wonder how he is coping with that sort of pace?
Anyway, enough of all that! I have been practicing blocking those thoughts exactly the way you described and it seems to be working. 🙂 I have made a decision to say nothing at all to them, should we ever meet again. I sincerely hop that they do not come to the small festival that is the only one I go to each year! And every time I start to think, ‘I will say this to her, I will say that to him’ I block those thoughts. It’s getting easier every day, so thank you for the advice. I am determined to go to this festival again, although I have wondered at times, whether I should go, in case I bump into them. And then I thought, so what if I do? I shall just ignore them both.
*I have been hesitating about sharing any advice of my own with others on these threads.. but thought perhaps I could after all help others with their situations, as you have helped with mine. Thank you back! 🙂
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