Hi TeaK,

“”Here is one possible scenario of what might have happened: In the beginning he was able to empathize with you, checking in on you, being kind and considerate, and offering help. As you were anxious quite a lot, it could be that after a while he got tired of always talking about your anxiety and being careful not to upset you. He might have started developing resentment for always needing to take care of you, and it might have manifested in him not being there for you when you needed it most: When you had an especially rough day, he wasn’t available to talk. Or when you were about to be admitted to hospital for suicidal ideation, he instead of being concerned, started talking about his exam. It could be that you were too much to handle for him, and so he sometimes “checked out”, exactly at the worst time. He probably couldn’t tell you directly at the time that you’re “too much”, but did it in this form of passive aggression.””

I agree with this. He had told me that I was too much for him and he said he had to walk on eggshells around me so I wouldn’t get upset. He told me I was sensitive and emotional but in a bad way. I don’t understand what I was doing that made him feel that way, I made sure to never dump everything on him but he never told me at the moment that he couldn’t talk to me (he didn’t set a boundary). I didn’t know I was doing something wrong because he never told me about it at first.

“One possible reason for this could be that he is narcissistic and really inconsiderate, and that in the beginning of your relationship he was faking kindness and interest in you. The other possibility is that he isn’t narcissistic but that he felt unheard, since a lot of your conversations were about you. As I said before, maybe he was tired of talking only about you and tending to your needs, but wanted to talk about himself, and expected you to listen to him and be there for him? I really don’t know if this is the case, just putting it out there as a possibility…”

I don’t think this is the case because I would listen when he’d talk about himself and vice versa, until I would be going through an episode.

“Having read everything you wrote, I see two possibilities: 1) one is that he truly isn’t able to empathize with people and is extremely self-centered (it would be true if he were a narcissist, or someone with antisocial disorder), or 2) that he isn’t able to show as much empathy for you as you would want it – however that it’s not a failure of his character, but rather that due to your anxiety, you are very sensitive and in a big need of empathy and soothing, which he isn’t able to meet (and then reacts with resentment, and lately, is extremely hostile and disrespectful).”

I think these two possibilities are true.

He states that he has trouble empathizing with people and I was not shown the empathy I needed during my rough times. It’s a bit strange because he was showing me love and empathy during the beginning of my relationship, it wasn’t exactly what I needed but I would tell him what I needed and he would understand and change to support me, but as soon as my mental state deteriorates, he’s not able to be there for me. I admit I was very codependent on him because I wouldn’t take care of myself sometimes (especially during the end of the relationship) and I wasn’t able to self-soothe my emotions. I relied on him for my happiness a looot. I think that’s why he reacted with resentment and is hostile and disrespectful… 🙁

Hi TeaK,

I don’t remember each scenario exactly but I will try my best.

At the beginning of the friendship, he was aware of my mental state and was checking in on me, asking if he could do anything to make me feel better. This continued on into the relationship but slowly he started checking in on me less. I would get lots of anxiety and need reassurance that he loves me. He would try his best to reassure me and make me feel better. When I was having very rough days, we wouldn’t talk as much because he was never available to talk. This really hurt me and he was aware that we weren’t talking as much and he admitted it.

I believed he did not love me, but he was trying his best to show that he does even if he wouldn’t respond to me as quickly as I’d like. He told me that he has ADHD and would hyper-fixate on something (video games) so he couldn’t find the time to respond. I was totally fine with him responding after a while, but it was really rough for me when I was having a bad day and all I needed was someone to talk to, and he wouldn’t be there for me when I needed him. I’m aware that he was trying his best even if I didn’t feel loved by him.

One situation really hurt me deeply and it was one of the first times I realized he couldn’t give me the empathy and support I needed. I was on my way to the hospital because I was getting admitted for suicidal ideation, I was in a really bad state of mind. I was also very nervous because it was a big step for me to ask for help from a school counsellor and I was waiting for my ride to get to the hospital. On my way, I was texting my ex-boyfriend about my situation and I was telling him how nervous I was. I was just talking to him about my current situation, and he suddenly changed the conversation towards himself, talking about how he got such a bad mark on a test (he was in class at that time). It really hurt because I felt like what I said was ignored and he did not care that I was on my way to the hospital. It was really upsetting because I needed lots of support that time, and he was the only person I had contact with during that time. I have other friends for support but they were not available to talk. I didn’t even tell my parents about this.

I didn’t tell him at that moment that it hurt me that I was being ignored, but I did tell him later in which he said that he is sorry for that.

He always does this in conversations, even when I’m just talking about myself (unrelated to my mental state) he does not acknowledge it and just continues to talk about himself. It feels like I’m being ignored and I just wanted him to empathize with me and understand me to the best of his abilities.

Hi Anita,

Just to clarify, in the beginning (5 months) of our relationship I was not anxiously attached to my partner. I had my own sense of self and was working on my treatment for depression & anxiety. I remember very clearly that I had a lot of anxiety when we had arguments in the relationship because my ex would not support me when I was going for treatment. This is why the anxiety formed. The rest is accurate, I was anxious all throughout the other phases except the 4th and 5th phases where we were not talking and I felt a sense of freedom.

“then his ASPD diagnosis is not relevant to the 8 phases of his relationship with you.”

He was definitely kind and selfless with me, but during our relationship in phase 1, he was having trouble with showing empathy for me even if he had lots of empathy and love for me. Then during phase 7, he was being disrespectful towards me.

“”In summary: it is your anxiety within an intimate, romantic relationship with a man (having an anxious attachment style) that needs to be attended to. I think that rather than “Letting go of hope for (his) recovery” (the title of your thread), it is better that you continue to focus on your own recovery while abstaining for some time from any kind of a relationship with him (a future 9th phase), and/ or with any other man.””

Thank you for putting this into words. I’ve been focusing on my mental health but I’m not sure how to relieve the anxious attachment towards my ex. Since this anxiety only shows up when I’m in a relationship with him, so I’m not sure how to work on this.

Hi Anita,

There is some information that is missing so I will be clearing it up.

In June 2020 when we hooked up, I had the intention that we were going to get back into a relationship together and I was very much attached to him. He told me he had feelings for me for a week or two, and then told me that he wasn’t even sure if they were real. I was hurt by that and he could obviously see it. He felt extreme guilt for what he did (hooking up with me and leading me on), I could see this on his face when we met up to talk about our relationship in person. I was the one who wanted to talk to him about our relationship because it helps me understand better, he agreed to it but he did not have anything to say, except for, “Sorry for being a shitty person.”. That was the only thing he said to me when we were in person, he never even comforted me while I was crying because he did not know what to do. After that he was being distant and it was because he was guilty for what he did to me.

Mid August 2020, we stopped talking completely because I seemed to be the only one initiating and starting the conversations, I realized how unhealthy it was.

We did talk a few times during September 2020 – Jan 2021, but it was very brief and unrelated to our past.

This is an important thing that I did not mention in my post because I did not think it was necessary but here I go.

During September 2020 – Jan 2021 I was working on my mental health and grieving the loss of my relationship. My depression and anxiety significantly improved, because I realized that most of it was coming from my toxic relationship with my ex. I was very anxiously attached to him, and he was very avoidant, this caused me a lot of distress. So when I finally cut off contact, I was obviously sad and grieving but I felt a sense of freedom because during this time I was figuring out who I am and what I actually want in life, (I am still doing this but I am so much more happier now).

One night in February, I was asking myself one question about my past relationship. I seemed to have understood the reasoning for our breakup and it was very clear, so I was over the breakup, but I was not over one thing. That was, why my ex left me when we promised a friendship together. My ex had promised me that even if things didn’t work out in the future, we could still be friends. We had a great bond and connection so it hurt me so much to think that he did not care about me anymore, and I was wondering why. So that night, I messaged my ex if I could talk to him about something. I made it as clear as possible, I just wanted to ask him one question and he replied in a positive way. He was open to talking to me about it, so I asked him the question “Why did you leave when you promised a friendship with me?” and he told me it was because of the guilt he had for hooking up with me in July 2020. I did not know at the time but after he cleared this up for me I was so much happier knowing that I did nothing wrong that made him not want to speak to me, and that he didn’t hate me.

We continued our conversation like normal, it was so crazy to me because we were talking like we had just spoken but it had been months since we last spoke. We were very casual and cracking jokes together and I was a bit worried that speaking to him would hurt me, but it didn’t.

We ended up being friends again naturally, we did not force anything at all, and he was very kind and sweet. He always listened when I had something to say (especially about our past relationship), and he would answer as honestly as possible. I even told him honestly, that I still had feelings for him and he said that it’s okay and that I should do what is best for me, even if that meant ending our friendship.

At the time, I was learning to be independent and it honestly helped me so much that I had someone who I loved very much by my side making me feel comfortable with the new changes. So I did not end the friendship because the feelings were not bothering me that much, I was able to control them and just be friendly with him and not be jealous of any other girl that he was talking to.

We talked every single day like best friends, and then a month later (March 2021), he told me has feelings for me. I was so shocked, that he caught feelings for me again. I wasn’t sure if those feelings were genuine because he was telling me that it might have just been because I was the only girl talking to him at the time and he might have been caught up in old feelings. I was so anxiously attached to him that I wanted another relationship with him. He told me that he couldn’t because he was moving to a different city for college in September and he does not like long distant relationships.

This hurt me because I knew I would do anything to be with this boy even if we were long distant. I gave him the impression that I wasn’t hurt by this. We never did anything and he slowly lost feelings for me throughout April – May 2021.

Now I’m not sure what exactly happened in April – May 2021, but we ended up arguing a lot. This is because he was not being as nice and kind as before. He would only talk about himself, and he would say a lot of hurtful things to me that were just unacceptable. I was being disrespected by being friends with him. I said multiple times that we can’t be friends if he’s not going to value me and respect me. He just gave me the impression that he did not care. This period was very confusing for me and very hurtful because I just couldn’t believe I was being disrespected by someone I loved and respected so much.

He had remorse for some of the things he said and did to me, and I held onto the potential I saw in him. I kept telling myself he didn’t mean these things (and I still believe he didn’t have the intention to hurt me), and that he would be a better person. He even told me he is changing his behavior and I was so happy to see him not be as angry and rude for a week. But after that week, he was back to being his old self.

After a lot of conversations with him, I realized he wasn’t going to change at all. So I left. He gave me the impression that he did not mind my absence, even though I did because we were best friends and talked to each other about everything. Last time we spoke was in June when I messaged him about one thing regarding his behavior and he told me that he has been professionally diagnosed with ASPD.

Now, I have been significantly happier without him but as I’ve stated before, the hope I have for him changing into his best self is hurting me and I’d really like to let it go.

I am grateful for all the important lessons I’ve learned by being in a relationship with him, and I’ve also learned that there is no point going back to him because he is the same man he was a year ago. Part of me feels so sad because I know the reason he feels this way is because hes very depressed and denies his emotions, and he does not know how to deal with them.

I’m not sure if he hates me because I never wanted to hurt him and he held onto one joke I made (that was completely unrelated to him!) and assumed that I meant it to hurt him but I never did. The joke was never meant to hurt him and I never ever meant it in the way he took it, he was so angry with me and I’m not sure if he still is. (This happened in May 2021).

I admit I did act like the victim in front of him during May/June, because I was incredibly hurt and my feelings were always being invalidated and I believed a lot of things in the relationship that weren’t ever true! (Such as, it was my fault for our relationship in April 2020 to end because of my mental health). I was never dumping my feelings onto him, I was simply asking for support and he was unable to provide it to me and told me that I was “complaining”. He STILL believes that every time I talk to him about his behavior and how it’s unacceptable, it’s just me complaining.

I got out of the victim mindset once I started feeling empathy for him as well as myself. I realized that he did not have the intention to hurt me, and the reason he did is because of his traumatic childhood that made him develop ASPD and not be able to love/trust anyone except for a few people, me being one of them.

When I say my ex was very kind and selfless, I only mean he was that way to his loved ones (1 or 2 people including me), not to everyone else. He does NOT trust anyone else and is always skeptical of their intentions. Please remember that it is definitely possible for a person diagnosed with ASPD to feel love towards a selected group of people. His diagnosis does not mean he is incapable of feeling love and empathy, it means he has trouble with it.

So I got rid of that Good/Victim category that you are talking about, and I do not feel that way anymore. In fact, I have already forgiven him for all the pain that he has caused me and I’ve apologized to him for everything I did that hurt him. I do not feel any resentment or anger towards him anymore, just sadness and hope that he could change into his best self… the best self I saw in him multiple times.

The reason I do not see him as bad, is because we have been friends for many years and I was one of the only people he trusted to talk to about his feelings and I remember every thing he told me. There is no reason for him to lie to me because he never wanted anything from me. So I believe what I’ve seen is the true him.

“”I think that you do have a desire to be with him, and a strong desire at that. I understand that you intellectually separate his “current self” from his “best self”, but your heart desires him regardless of the distinctions that your intellect makes.””

I agree with this, I do have a desire to be with him (my emotions), but logically I know I shouldn’t because being with his current self will bring me nothing but pain and I’m interested in relationships that will allow me to grow.

“”I understand that people are complex, some more than others, and that all people placed under one diagnosis are not all the same, but I would think that a person who was correctly diagnosed with an Asocial Personality Disorder cannot possibly be “genuinely good person.. selfless and kind“. So I figure either one of the following is true, but not both: he is either genuinely good, selfless and kind or he fits the ASPD diagnosis.””

I think you have misunderstood. He is only a “good person” with his loved ones (a few people), and with the rest of the world he isn’t. Though, I have seen him do selfless acts to random strangers even if he gained nothing. I’m not sure if that makes his diagnosis valid or not but I’m going based off what he told me.

Symptoms for ASPD:

• Disregard for right and wrong
• Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
• Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others
• Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
• Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated
• Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior
• Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty
• Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
• Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
• Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
• Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others
• Poor or abusive relationships
• Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
• Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations

He fits most of the symptoms.

For example, he may manipulate and lie to people to gain something for himself, even if it’s very small (he has told me about this). He is very arrogant, impulsive, hostile and aggressive. He lacks empathy as well, he has admitted to all of these things. He would never intentionally hurt me (because he does not want anything from me), or his loved ones and pets. He told me he has a lot of empathy for animals and pets and not a lot for humans.

“”Next, “Right now, I don’t think of him as a good person“- I wonder if you don’t think about him as a good person right now  because right now he is not speaking to you even though you want to speak with him (“We also don’t speak anymore“, you wrote earlier).””

I do not think of him as a good person because of his actions, not because we dont speak. He has also admitted himself, that he see’s himself as a bad person because of his actions and mindset.

“Maybe you are struggling a lot with not speaking with him anymore. Maybe you’ve been trying to contact him repeatedly since you talked last, and he has been refusing any and all contact with you.”

It does hurt a lot not speaking to him, but honestly I prefer not talking to him (his current self) because he was very rude and it brought me a lot of pain.

No problem, reply when you feel like.

Hi Anita,

He definitely did try to be more empathetic and caring, he is fully aware that he is a bad person and he even admits it. The thing is, he was trying to be better but now he just admits hes not a good person and does not care.

It is worth noting he is above the age of 18 so his diagnosis is valid.

“the serenity prayer states in part: “Help me to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”- you can’t change him (and shouldn’t try anymore), you can change your attitude, although it is difficult to accomplish (to give up hope to change him, and move on from him)- focus then on what you can change and post again anytime with your thoughts and feelings. I am here to reply to you further if/ when you post.”

Thank you so much for this, I really needed this reminder that I am in control of my thoughts and actions. It is difficult to give up this hope and I have been trying for so long. I no longer have any desire to be with him (his current self) but I notice that deep down inside I have hope that he’ll go back to being his best self. I’m not sure if this hope will ever change or leave, because I am always praying for my loved ones to be their best self. I am trying my best.

anita

Hi Anita,

Of course he had told me he has ASPD symptoms since his childhood and has been professionally diagnosed. Also ASPD is evident in childhood and he knew about the symptoms but not the diagnosis at the time and did not care to look further into it.

ASPD is different for everyone. It does not mean he can never be kind and selfless. He was just selective about it. It does not mean he can’t ever love. He was very kind to his loved ones including me while he has ASPD. Those two statements can coexist.

He has told me about his childhood symptoms and they were always visible. He is able to feel cognitive empathy for others but very rarely. I think you may be a bit confused about his diagnosis but there is much more to it than I am saying.

I know him very well and he had told me about his symptoms way before we even dated. Even if he did lie, I don’t understand why he would do that?

He only told me because I asked him about his symptoms and how they were affecting me. He told me he found out recently because he was seeing a therapist and did not tell anyone else because he feels no need to. I was the only person he told because he said it felt like I needed to know given the circumstances. I just don’t understand what he wouldve gained from lying to me because he wanted nothing to do with me.

I did mention him to seek support but he said he is not interested because he does not see his diagnosis to be an issue. He only cares for himself so he does not care about how it’s affecting others.

I cannot be the one responsible to help him seek professional support because I have already done what I can. I can’t force someone to receive support when they do not want to themselves. We also don’t speak anymore.

There is absolutely nothing I can do for him. So I’m trying to let go of hope I have for him.