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Cali ChicaParticipant
Hello Anita,
I am in the process of finding a quality psychotherapist, a difficult feat – but I am in the process, wish me luck.
The removing myself has helped tremendously. Over the last week I have taken a look away from how much progress i have made. I mean look at the example of N, I talked about it, ruminated about it for what 2 maybe 3 days – then was okay…the old me would have held onto that for much longer. Seeing my ability to simply let things go “faster” shows me that my healing is in the right direction.
Yes, when I came home that day from yoga, the past was full force. My mother was right there, spewing out fire. Yes we did go for a ride. And sure, even if this happens less often – it still happens.
Yoga has been helpful (overall) and I think honestly, more than anything, is spending wholesome alone time. The time before yoga, not scheduling too much time with friends – only when I truly feel I want to. Time to my thoughts. Feeling okay and not fearful of this alone time. I find myself sometimes thinking that this above all is where the true healing happens – sometimes I can literally feel it. I can feel my heart brewing growth. I can (like when doing too many ab exercises – the last 2 your body shaking and quivering but knowing it is leading to strength) at times I feel this sort of healing. I do not take this for granted.
I do know that new changes, moves, jobs, people – do not always land us on the same perfect healing path. I do know that there will be steps forward and back. I also know, that I am doing the work – even in moments that it doesn’t feel like it. I know I am doing the work. I never cease doing the work.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
The neurons/ neuropathways are adjusted to respond to catastrophe, not to a casual everyday living.
yes, wow this does resonate with me. What comes to mind?
- my mother forcing me to throw my father a “surprise” 60th bday party, so she could gloat how much her daughter loves her
- from there feeling extreme emotions (so many – anger, rage, guilt, feeling trapped) just to gloss over
- calling the police and feeling
- like there is nothing left, either this woman is commited and I am free of her, or my life is in misery, no way out
I can think of a few more, countless more – but do you know what it’s really about?
It is about almost frying out these neurons! These experiences have caused such severe and extreme emotions that they have literally electrocuted my circuitry. These pathways now respond only to this severe emotion – and not to casual everyday life…yes.
So then what? Over time they can readjust once we remove trauma and slowly learn to adapt to “normal”?
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Really – so do you believe I am shielding myself from feeling these feelings. Also, I am not sure if I believe these taste buds can recover – as I never recall them being there in the first place (although I know in my brain they are present)
We have talked in the past about how recurrent terrible trauma leads to numbness and “stuck sensation” as that is the body/mind’s defense mechanism to protect…
- This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
You ask:
Did I ever for my husband feel:
really close, a deep affection, not guilt and dry- appreciation, but a deep, close, guilt- free affection?
do you remember a month or 2 ago I asked you, if I am capable of love. That if I myself am not capable of it, and am more like my mother. You mentioned to me that you believe that I am looking for that softness that is lost, as I have gotten hardened.
So my answer to you is this:
Yes, I have felt a SEMBLANCE of this before when we first met – but (and it is so hard to explain) I have this strong feeling that I am not able to love truly deeply with everything. Not because I am holding back on purpose, or that I don’t trust, or that he is not the right person for me (as I am 100 percent sure this would be with anyone) it is that like they say with depressed individuals, they are unable to have those deep feelings of love and joy.
It is like I am unable to. So now, yes I have affection, but it isn’t the full depth of what I know I am capable of (or that a human is capable of) it is stunted if that makes sense.
Kind of like tasting an amazing cake but having half of your taste buds burnt off..
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
You’re right she did herself give me the lonely experience. It wasn’t that it just was this way. Or that’s how life is. Bad life.
Nope, like you said – she herself did this. She MADE me feel this way, because as a mother she had this power over me as her child. Mother’s dictate how their children feel. So no, I didn’t just happen to feel this way Anita – it wasn’t how my life was. It was enforced.
In medical school when I had the breakdown, she said something along the lines of – oh you – you’ve been crying since you’re born, always crying about something – I just can’t deal with this anymore – after all these years, same old, cry baby.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
In all honesty, I can not recall exactly what scared me the most. But if I truly think about it, I recall as being an older child (maybe after 6 vaguely) that I was fearful of loneliness. My mother fed me all these things about being sad and lonely and how the world is so sad, and how other people get jealous of us. So I recall feeling heavy about this – if it makes sense…?
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
It is about being advanced on the path of healing and learning that a person, in their personal lives, create those peaceful win-win interactions and relationships wherever possible, with whomever is willing.
How well said, this is what I seek to attain. The ability to be me, a person, in my OWN personal life creating these interactions. For, if they are not outside of me, externally, it does not dictate whether or not they are in my OWN life.
I have done a good job with only interacting with those individuals that bring positive to my life, and not with those who don’t (example N, and other people) – but the missing link is believing, and practicing. Knowing.
It is knowing that I, Cali Chica, can create peace. I can do it. I have the POWER. I do have win-win interactions Anita. I have it with you. With my husband. With my handful of amazing friends I choose to keep in my life. But this is not my focus. No it remains on “over there” on what is missing.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I act this way to exert POWER over my husband. Why do you think this is?
Sometimes it feels like I act like this because of my own internal angst, let’s even call it self hatred. What a term. I have read a lot about how people who have gone through what I have, and dealt with such a terrible mother, we are filled with not just anger and hatred and self hatred.
I have thought about this – self hatred. Do I hate myself? Well no, if I ask myself simply. Of course not! I know people who hate themselves and their own lives – surely that is not me!
But I do believe it manifests in a different way – resentment.
How I felt about the WC plan, notice how all of my thoughts are external – why can’t I make it like others can (having not even tried) why do others who may not even be as capable find success? Why do I feel stuck in not being able to create something like this?
But then on the flip side feeling that I need time to heal and should not expect myself to jump start a business asap.
But that is not my first inclination. My first inclination continues to be that I need to do more, and that I should do more, and that why am I not doing XYZ. My first inclination tends to be anger at not being content with what I have and not having patience. Yet, in my conscious calm mind, I know I am in a better place, I know I am healing, and I do find faith.
That brings me to my following point. Faith – hope. I do feel that I have lost these, in people, I notice I am hardened to the fact that people will disappoint me. That they will not be helpful unless they need something, and that they by nature are selfish. I do not walk around daily and thinking this about every single person – but I do notice this is quite strong in my mind. I do not believe the world is a great place, and that overall people are good. I do not. I am hardened to myself, to the world, to my husband.
I notice moments of softness. I do – and i do believe they are coming out more and more often. But the baseline is still hard, and wound up, and perhaps full of hatred on some level.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I understand your post about power. I understand it well. You said very well how this doctor will continue to “check in” and assure she is in power. Especially when she works with another female that is capable (myself) that could be seen as someone she wants to ensure she is “better” than. I spent a great deal of time thinking about her actions, her way of treating others over the weekend.
I used to get very hung up on this sort of thing, in the sense of I would ask – why do people like her get away with acting this way? you’ve heard me say this before.
Nowadays I am (trying) to see that they are simply another species. Instead of focusing outward to see why she is successful in acting like a b**** and “getting away with it” I should/and try to look where? simply away.
dedicating energy to her and the way she is and how she lives her life this way does not change my life, or change her interaction with others. there is no answer as to why she is this way, and why people succumb (some may not) it truly does not matter.
if this person was say my mother – well then that is a different story and much more personal.
But where should my energy go?
Well, to the second half of your post – how i MYSELF act like a powerful demon often. So forget her monstrosities, what about my own? Why do I act this way?
This never occurred to me before Anita. My entire life, I have been SO caught up in why OTHER people act the way they do and how it is so “sad” and bad etc, that I have NEVER spent that energy thinking about why I act the way Ido.
I know now, being on the path – that energy is fine. It is not infinite as it once seemed. I am not superhuman, I am not a robot.
Thus if I spend 8/10 of my mental energy on thinking of someone such as say this doctor, what do I have left – to think about what I am doing, what I am feeling, how my husband is feeling – what the heck my OWN LIFE is. There is 2/10 left. And after spending that going to say a yoga class, attending to emails, and normal life stuff – then what is left? zero
zero is left to tend to what I am going through, what I am feeling, and what I am coming off as.
It is so true Anita. I know this may not be the exact way you were going with your post – but I realize something.
I am not controlled by what others do – it just seems that way. IT sure does.
It feels that I have no control on being obsessed with what others day and ruminating on it. And so this is exactly why it also feels that I have NO CONTROL over how I act. I extend ZERO energy to it.
For someone who has the capacity to think so deeply and really analyze – I seldom do this for my own self! wow.
I shall begin today. With you. not 2/10 – no more.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
great question.
This doctor is in a position of slight power over me. In the sense of that she is one of the owners of this center that has hired me. I is difficult to explain. It is not seniority or hierarchy per se but I am a new hire at her (many of their) center. Does this excuse her behavior. No. She is a known “diva” and I spoke to another colleague who has had a similar interaction with her. She is quick to get combative and escalate things and become aggressive.
So I didn’t stay perfectly quiet that Friday. The first half of the day I felt my frustration boiling up. She mentioned something passive agressive to me along the lines of “oh I prefer things to be like this” when I had been working perfectly fine all morning and was uncalled for her to comment. So I mentioned back “oh ok I believe I’ve been doing that all morning, but If you feel otherwise let me know.” To this she begins to show aggression – and says oh don’t take it personally.
I have met many individuals like this before. Ego oriented. Self gloating and narcissistic. There is no winning in a fight with them. I realize at that moment that she was in a position of slight power and that if I continued the conversation she would escalate it. She is someone that does not appear to have boundaries. I took the quiet route for the rest of the day not to appease her. But to not poke her dragon. Why? Because she sits on a board in which another board member (her colleague/superior who I met with last week) has a role in promoting me to another sort of position. Details about that later.
My idea to step back was out of diplomacy. Realizing her reputation and her quick combative defensive remarks at me – I see she is unreasonable and aggressive. I don’t need a conflict 2 weeks into a job that can be escalated and become a “thing” as she has a history of doing this. However – if she crosses the line professionally I will be swift in stating my “preferences.” She has them as a physician so – so do I. I am strong and capable. Just not going to right a monster unless it comes down to it.
Yes you’re right. When it comes to my husband I am not afraid of aggression. If I was to be honest this relationship would have never lasted. Someone domineering or aggressive may have walked away 2 years ago when the abuse was so had. When my parents were terrible to him and his parents. When I was a brainwashed demon. Yes you are right – fire comes out when I am not afraid of the other person’s aggression. Perhaps I’ve always been this way looking back to other boyfriend’s. Perhaps taking advantage of the ones who loved me and wouldn’t “fight” back and so using them as a punching board
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Take your time. IT is frigid cold here today – a nice day for a good book and blanket. I was going to ask you if you had any good book recommendations.
I wanted to add – I notice (and I am not going to attribute this to 2 days of medication, I am just noting overall) that after I have pretty much taken major space from my sister, I can listen to other peoples problems without getting fully absorbed. This has been quite difficult for me my whole life. Of course it is much easier when they are acquaintances or even patients, who you do not have a personal history with. But I am working on being a better listener. So often before – I would find myself thinking about what to say to “help” more than listen. Maybe I am at least 10% relinquishing that burden of feeling that I am responsible for how others feel, and that I truly have any part in it.
Last Friday I worked with a very difficult woman. Huge ego, narcissistc, pushy, and bossy. It was quite triggering, and this was the day I was feeling my lowest. IT was the day that you also mentioned that you feel sad I am not doing well. In fact, of course spending 10 hours working side by side with her did not help. But as is life- we will come across these types – its inevitable. It took me the rest of the evening to recover mentally from the experience. This compounded with feeling super low, and deciding that I need to do something about it.
I do dread Fridays coming up with her now. But I also on the second half of the day did something I seldom do – I stayed quiet.
I let her lead her show. Her big ego wants to hold the reigns, and I realize that as long as it doesnt undermine me or my own patient care, she can gloat and enjoy her show all she wants. It was very difficult for me to stay silent when she was being borderline rude, but speaking up didn’t change the situation – in fact with these types nothing you say or do will quell the situation. distance is key.
that is what I will be working on this week Anita, staying silent when there is no need to add anything extra to the conversation.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good morning, I hope you are well. I had a relaxing and calm weekend. No side effects from the medication, and feeling quite “normal.”
I re read your post, I do believe that in the times that I am feeling “unlike” myself I have to do a much better job of creating space. I think that prior to tracking my cycles and gaining understanding of such, I felt all the emotions were so erratic (which of course they can be when I am triggered on any given day) but overall I have found a cyclical pattern to a few (3-5) bad days per month. I talked to my husband extensively about this as well this weekend, he is well aware of course. And I do believe that with realizing when I need to take a breather or simply space away whether it be physical or walking away from a conversation – it could be a saving grace.
Now the issue is having such foresight. Anger over takes, and does not see ahead of itself, it is sudden and erratic and full of rage – so that will be the difficulty, and one I am focused on in a few weeks when perhaps I begin to feel like this again.
Separating completely from one another is not an option, as yes, the moments that are bad (such as the example i showed you) are quite bad – and triggering – yet, my husband and I both believe that there is so much good – and that I am working in the right direction with my emotions and anger.
I spent a good amount of time thinking about being medicated this weekend. Feeling at times glad that I took the step, and other times feeling that I don’t like the idea of my body becoming dependent on a substance (I even avoid daily coffee for this reason). I realize that at the end of the day it comes down to what you said best – needing some assistance and respite so I can heal. If I can not feel stable and normal, I can not heal. I can not take steps forward, for myself, and even more important with my husband.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
yes apart of me has become an abusive person. Maybe not just apart. I have become an abusive person to my husband. For many years now and it has not gotten better although there has been respite (after removing my mother) it is still there of course. Yes anger needs to hurt another person. Yes it does and it succeeds. To the rest of the world I often feel angry but sometimes small and wounded. Sometimes strong but tired Or often defeated and angry – angry and spiteful. This is not nearly as important as my anger projected out at my husband. Yes anger. Anger has no interest in solutions, anger is there to fight.
I am going to re read your response before replying further.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
okay I will explain a recent outburst. I had come home from yoga. I opened the door and he was there and asked, âhey if youâre tired I can order some food.â (As in itâs getting late for us to make something so why donât you shower and relax and I can order something for us to eat)
i donât say much but am in the shower then. Feeling anger rise up in me. I feel this rage. I start thinking – âorder!!!â I spent an hour yesterday cooking food so we would have leftovers!!! I feel angry. I feel annoyed. I get out of the shower. Â And I start exclaiming something along the lines of. âLook in the fridge. I didnât spend all this time yesterday cooking so we would have to order today!!â (As a background I try to eat healthy and avoid ordering out during the week – I feel really strong about that and feel guilty if I eat out too much during the week as I feeel I should be eating healthier and can make great stuff at home, totally self imposed, my husband is happy with either).
So I am exclaiming this all. He says to me âoh well when I looked in the fridge I didnât see the leftovers, so I was just saying this to help out.â As you can see total irrational anger on my part.
I start saying how I am tired. And itâs so hard to do it all. Go to work come home try to be Active like do yoga and also eat healthy. I am pretty much having a conversation with myself. Angrily. My husband is calm and says well you donât have to do all that. I am happy to order food. And if you want to work part time you can we have talked about it.
I say no itâs not that. And itâs not. I was just full of anger. Â Not because I work too much. Not because Iâm forced to cook. Â Not because my husband is FORCING me to order out. No none of it is true.
So then the conversation goes downhill. I start getting angrier and somehow it leads to how I had to live in CT (where we were before this move nyc) because of him and take a bad job. I am saying terrible things. They are spewing out before my brain can grasp them. Almost expertly so like a prosecutor on the stand that expertly jabs and hits the other party below the belt.
We moved to CT because he had taken a job there. During this time is when I was at my worst when I began to speak to you. I blamed him for everything I had no idea my mother was the root. I would complain daily about moving there because my mother would brainwash me. I would complain daily about my job. I would blame him for living there and about everything. Â I used to terrorize my husband when I was having issues with my.mom and blame him. Saying oh if we didn’t live here it would be different. (Entirely untrue Anita. In fact my job wasnât bad at all. And I enjoyed my time in beautiful CT we got a dog and I loved the nature and beauty). Anyway. This was below the belt. I saw his face. After over a year of terrorizing him about this I had finally stopped and now again an old jab. Blaming him for my time in CT (which as above wasnât bad at all). It was pushing someoneâs buttons just to hurt them. Just to be mean Anita. Just to be nasty.
He gets angry (now he does after all the torture over the 2 years he gets angry, when I first met him he remained calm and Coloected always, but the interaction with my poor treatment of him and my mother has changed him). He gets angry and says he needs to go for a walk. Starts changing into warm clothes.
I IMMEDIATELY see what I have done. But see it in the sense of – âoh I screwed upâ but not in the sense of why did I say that and where did it come from. Like an uncontrollable fire emitting dragon. Spitting out fire and then looking – oh the person got burnt. Oops….
so I apologize. But itâs empty. Why? Because I am saying nonsense just to be mean. I start explaining again (same thing always) that I canât control what I said. That I didnât mean it. Itâs like I have fighting gloves on for no reason.
He starts explaining to me that all he was doing was trying to help. He knows how much I love yoga and wanted me to take a nice shower after and havedood ready (hence the ordering). But all I did was scream that I spent all this time cooking And how dare I propose that idea.
He felt quite wounded about me bringing up CT and saying. Because of you I had to live in that place and take that horrible job. Blaming him about something that I had done day in and day out for a year. He was wounded that after I saw how much that affected him I would bring it up again. And Anita – it was like fire. It just came up. An expert fighter. (If I got paid to Jab him with anger I would do well).
Itâs hard to explain to you but Iâll try. This stuff really takes a lot out of him now. Itâs not just a small fight. Itâs like this. Someone was beaten down and tortured for so long. So now they donât have anything left in their tank. Now thereâs just nothing left.
He mentioned that. He said I just donât have anything left. I convinced him to not go for the walk. We are some food. No one had an appetite. And he was quite defeated for the rest of the night. Interesting how I always get headaches when I get super stressed. He never does. But nowadays I see him have the effects of stress I always did. Itâs like im turning him into me. Asuffering person. I am. But I cause it. And feel like I canât control it. So here we are.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
i forgot to add. Given that I am an MD. I do not believe that doctors or psychologists in the mental health field have better experience and understanding of the types of issues that people like you and I face. I do believe yes SOME. In fact I believe that some people who have lived it and seen it and come out on the other side are the most incredible resources. Someone like yourself.
Now that does not mean all care and dependence can be on such a person. No they are a resource and a supporter. It is just a token of how complex this field is, how complex childhood trauma is, how only so few can understand the wounds a mother leaves behind – and the goo there after.
i feel lucky to have people in my life including you that can understand me. So lucky that I in fact do not seek more of this in the world. I do not go out there and say hey I want everyone or others to understand this. Which is quite freeing. I am content with those who understand me, not everyone has to. So the provider I find. I donât expect the world. As I already have such great support. But that person can perhaps be a great assist in guiding treatment.
All in all what I mean to say is – someone like you, your wisdom, is worth their weight in gold, and others like yourself – no Harvard MD with millions of years of research could compare. Believe me đ you are so very special!
- my mother forcing me to throw my father a “surprise” 60th bday party, so she could gloat how much her daughter loves her
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