Dear Anita,

good morning. What I am saying in regards to above is the following- my mother, like a child in many ways – had no coping skills.

If my father had to give her a vaccine, say a flu shot or something else that was routine – she would often pout and cry and make baby faces. She would whimper and say no no don’t hurt me. I recall once a story of her even running around the house to avoid it. The stories were jokes often growing up, but looking back it was very childlike behavior. It’s one thing to have a needle phobia it’s another thing to pout and cry and throw tantrums and make it personal. I am visualizing/commenting on this not just as a daughter right now but also as a healthcare provider. When a patient says to me, why are you doing this to me? This hurts so much. They make it personal – As though I am trying to hurt them, as though the other party isn’t trying their best to help them. It is difficult to explain. But it is a very childlike defense mechanism. When adult patients do this I often am very sympathetic because I understand that often fear leads to regression. With my mother it was different. My mother – as you know was always quick to blame and point the finger.

I know this is going away from our savior conversation. But I think that regardless of everything I know that I was never a savior and my mothers head or heart. No one was. It’s funny, and one where she was very religious, at times – in certain ways. She would often say things like well I know No one can help me at least I have my God. She talked about having a very specific relationship to God (one of our incarnations that she felt extremely close to). She talked about how Hey saw this card figure as a family member, someone who continually has helped her through her hardest times. My sister and I recall her speaking with so much vindictiveness- Spewing out us, looking at us with this evil lie saying well I know the two of you are never going to do anything to help me, at least I have my God!

In back this is almost comical it’s saying two young children, you are not going to help me but God will. How ridiculous! Children versus a God. Whether you believe in a God or Almighty being, what kind of comparison is this! I remember times when I was younger when things like this would make me feel sad, thinking my poor mother. I also remember growing up into adolescence and older – And seeing this as hysterical. But isn’t it interesting, that even though I began to see many of her, it says hysterical, I did not take away my role. As we talk about relinquishing that role of being the savior, in my own head was very difficult and was often subconscious. To this day isn’t it?

It is only now that I have begun to let go of SCC in many ways. Many of the occurrences over this past month, and our deep conversation of all of this has led to this progress.

I thought about what you were saying, about how your mother never had faith in you of being capable to help her. I could see how that was very hurtful, probably subconsciously at the very least, I can also see that pushing a young child or daughter to consistently try. Trying to push herself, then growing very resentful early on.

It is interesting to me how all of our mothers that have the similar backgrounds are very similar you’re very different. If you put them side-by-side, none of them would feel like they related to the other. They would probably Scoff at it. But they’re abusiveness towards us had a similar pattern. It was understanding this early on about two years ago that really helped me realize the reality of my mother. That no matter what the façade, the way the person looks, their social economic status, they’re outward ways – deep down they have similar patterns. It is uncanny often.

The Reason I brought up the heat waveIs because of this. At work many of us were discussing casually what people do during a heatwave. We were joking that if we went to the beach that we would all melt. In addition, it’s not common to have outdoor pools in New York City like many other parts of the country. I thought about how growing up swimming was a huge part of my summer activities and it was very pleasant. Brought me back to those summers, and the pressure. The thought of, oh goodness, my mother and father spent so much time and energy trying to build this pool for us, we better use it. Feeling very guilty all the time. Feeling the need to invite people over my house to the pool instead of going to elsewhere often.  The idea of swimming often comes back from this. When I was on my London location, one of the cousins mentioned  that when she is settled she would love to have a nice backyard with a pool and asked me. I immediately interjected: not me, a pool is so hard to maintain. She said yeah I guess so, I’m not really sure I never grew up with one.  I realize that yes given that our summers are quite short, it is a lot of maintenance, but in reality my answer was obviously coming from the guilt and pressure that I had in the past.  My mother made it such a big deal, any sort of house maintenance that they had to do. Although they chose to live in a big house, with all of these frills. It’s Not like my sister and I said let’s go live in a huge house with a big pool and we won’t settle for less!

Another thing, growing up my mother would often be on the phone a lot. I’ve been to one of her sisters. Yes the sisters that that many times in her life would never talk to her or treat her poorly. I recall countless times of walking in and hearing conversations like, “ yes no matter what we do our children never appreciate us, look at how much work we put into things but they are always ungrateful.”

I was often a joking point Between us cousins, I’ll look at our parents always saying things like this about us, we would laugh it off. We had a lot of humor in those days, seeing our parents is ridiculous often and funny. Like many younger people do.

I recall walking into a certain conversation like this when I was older, say 20s. I’m feeling much more angered by it. Sometimes a conversation may be like: well after all we did to raise these children right, what else can we do. I would want to scream, what the heck are you talking about!

Anyway – I know I’m digressing some. The most important aspect of all of this is how it affects me now. What about all of this affects me on a day-to-day basis, affects my neural pathways and keeps me stuck. Causes me suffering? Well first of all, what we have discussed so much this month, the outwardness, the socialness. The guilt and addiction to this.

I have observe myself after the returning from London. I have had a handful of messages asking me if I am back. Let’s say five. Three of them I did not reply to it. They were not urgent it was people looking to make plans for entertainment. One of the people is looking for entertainment because I know that she is “free these days, I know very well that if her life circumstance is different right now she wouldn’t necessarily be reaching out. As is life. The other two were probably looking for a chat. I did reply to one of them who is a close friend that recently moved to Florida, I have mentioned him before. I told him a little bit about the London wedding and ask him how Florida was, and that was it. It was nice to hear from him and there was nothing more.

It’s the aspects of all of this that feel extremely consuming that are detrimental. I Did judge myself before of course, andOne conversation with you believe it or not was quite cover it all. About that wedding, and believe me I won’t bring it up again as it will give you a headache. It give me a step back, obligation or not, why should I especially in the state of my life, sign up for any more ridiculousness! Really, life can be that simple.

But above and beyond the most important thing that I have learned this month is the inner circle. Thank you for teaching me about this Anita. Would like to write here a little bit about it to refresh myself. I do believe a concept like this requires consistent refreshment and re-calibration.

We spoke about S,  if I had attendedEngagement party I would be outside, her inner circle would be herself and fiancé. I have made it a point in my life to be on the sidelines, the outer circle in peoples lives. Neglecting my own inner circle myself and husband. Or simply myself first and foremost before anyone. I didn’t seem like this to me for many years, friendship was such an important aspect of my life, it felt like it was inner circle. Which brings us to our next point the concept of changing priorities from teenage to adult. As I said, my husband and I have had somewhat of a delayed adulthood given all of our training. Many of our friends who went through all of the years like us have similar stories. Unlike them, we often suffered with this given that we never gained the “selfishness”’or self focus to put ourselves first. With the combination of changing priorities from teenage to adulthood, and the inner circle. There is maturity.

My mother never ever taught me what maturity of us. My mother never actually really talked about the concept of growing into an adult and becoming mature. Of course, she would love to use jabs. Like that comment that we bring up so often, about how I have been crying since I was born. Always making comments of just because I am a grown-up now, say 20s and in medical school doesn’t even mean that I am close to mature. In fact my father would often say with these big guys and harsh voice, don’t think that you are doing so great- Just because you are achieving all of this in your career, if you don’t have common sense and continue to be messy or frenzied at home – you don’t achieve anything. Or better put, you Can go on at achieve anything in your life as far as a career goals, but if you continue to be like this in the home you are nothing (in regards to my absent mindedness).

I recall one time driving home from somewhere, probably 20s or so. I had the music on loud, I pulled into our driveway. My father open the garage door. Instead of saying hello he said this. Why is your music on so loud? OK, not an uncommon question from a father to a daughter. But I want something like this: “You know that people thatHave to listen to music this that are suffering inside. They have mental issues. They can’t even listen to their own thoughts.”

And Anita, he wasn’t saying this in a concerned way. As in what is going on my dear child why are you listening to music like this are you suffering? He was saying it mockingly. As in, Oh look at you how pathetic you need to have your music on so loud because you can’t even listen to your own thoughts. How weak and troubled you are.

I think about this time to time when I put on my music/headphones on the subway. Not because I judge myself for music at all, but because I truly appreciate the solace that many of us find in music, especially when the environment around us is extremely frenzied. Music offers some respite. I laugh at how ridiculous and juvenile he was even though he was a physician. Not understanding the first thing about coping with any sort of anxiety or mental health.

What’s more is that it is not uncommon for teenagers to listen to extremely loud music, I mean half of the songs that are out there right now our pop music made by young people that are expression emotions, the woes of love, growing pains. My Sister and I talk about how our parents never let us grow. The either wanted us to be in a childlike state, or to be for mature adults. They never understood the concept of growing pains of growth in between.  We of course attributed this to The generation gap, and the cultural disparity.  It’s not like I was going to go home and talk to my mom about a crush at school, immigrant parents it was different. But that’s a fine scenario for maybe so much of America.

Ours was different – it was judging and mocking as above. What a comment right?

I also think about how all my own father dealt with so much anxiety and lack of coping, but he was deflecting his issues on to me. I still remember exactly how he looked when he said this comment to me, standing in the garage opening the door looking so angry like he would explode. Like a crazy person (for lack of a better term) talking out loud to them self.

Years later, especially when all of the wedding drama ensued. He would say things like you don’t even respect your own father. I would often say if you acted like an adult perhaps I would.  It would go one of two ways. It would lead him or my mother to be enraged and say oh goodness look at what kind of daughter this is what did we deserve in this life to deserve this sort of treatment. OR I would lead to the mellow drama, oh please forgive us our dear daughter, please forgive anything that we have done to hurt you. We love you and do you know that no one else cares about you like we do.

A sort of begging and desperation on the hands and knees type. The type where my mother would have told my father, let’s play nice with her so we don’t lose her we need her.

Towards the end I would laugh to myself, you think I’m that stupid that I’m going to fall for your drama, you better have gone to a better acting school. But – unlike now – I was not disconnected from emotion then and observing – it was of course extremely stressful and triggering.

oh wow – there’s always so much. how exhausting isn’t it,  Beyond anything else first and foremost how incredibly exhausting these people are

Lastly, my last post got cut off I am sorry. I fully understand that I was never a savior in my mother’s eyes. In fact I was never anything out of respect and love. The only person that she consistently appraised was her own self. She is in capable of love and respect for another person and also therefore, any idea of seeing someone as a savior, someone that may – in that definition deserve worship, is impossible.

This was something that I was able to understand and accept very early on before going no contact. In fact, perhaps it was the acceptance of this quality that led me to make the first step towards going no contact after all. For a variety of reasons this became very crystal-clear to me first and foremost without much distress. I think after so many examples and disappointments of such it was very clear as day.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Cali Chica.

Dear Anita,

Yes, absolutely. In fact, if I didn’t I would still be in contact with her – thinking/wishing/hoping to fulfill that “role.”

I see many patients like her daily, but unlike patients -she was my mother

People who do not have any awareness of why they are suffering, and expect someone else to entirely cure them without having any effort exerted on their end/mental or physical.  Even trying to explain something such as lifestyle modifications, unable to hear it – wanting to be fixed by an outside person, not wanting to take ownership. A true dis-ownership of self, handing over their entire self to someone else saying – fix me, and if you can’t I will be very angry with you.

Dear Anita,

Agreed! And I do not believe it healthy for humans to see another human as their savior.  It takes away self reliance and independence.  It is different as a child or perhaps a disabled or less abled human being.  But if you are fit to be a mother, you are fit to take care of yourself.

These women were not fit to be..of course.

Dear Anita,

I remember her babbling asa child. oh I have no one, who will help me, at least I have you – my sweet daughter.

you give your poor mother so much company.  what would I do without you

Dear Anita,

I know that the savior role was not a trick of my mind, as I recall seeing my mother in the most raw and vulnerable moments truly asking for help.  Help me, save me, you can do it, you’re my daughter – I have faith in you.

I also know that my non-savior role/not being good enough was not a trick of my mind.

I see it as a childish immature person.  When they are hungry they scream out IM HUNGRY. throwing fists on the floor, a tantrum.

you give them broccoli, then something else, they throw it at you.  you say I thought you were hungry? they say NO I AM NOT HUNGRY!!

they often don’t know what they want, they just know they are distressed, screaming out for help – but unable to gauge what will truly help – like a child – relying on the adult being for comfort, satiation, and honestly – everything.

Dear Anita,

I like how you point out the concept of this overgrown girl.  I notice this mother in the subway yesterday, seemingly an overgrown girl herself.  Looking at videos on her phone laughing out loud without shame, not noticing her child flip back and forth, almost hurting his head severely.  In her own little world.

I think about how I was tricked for so long because my mother was SOOO attentive.  Exact opposite of the scenario above.  Yet, it doesn’t make her any less toxic – and it does NOT make her loving.  This is the key thing I have learned over the past year.

It is easy to be tricked into thinking people are “loving” genuinely.  But it is often a front, that innocent people buy into.

I am not saying this to be vindictive or negative – but more realistic.

See I was tricked by my mothers concern and attentiveness.  Her interest, her everything.  Tricked in the sense that it was all an illusion feigning as love. I notice how I went to others wanting this love, probably knowing deep down inside I wasn’t fulfilled or satisfied.

Always looking , always searching.  Mother let me bring you a flower, oh no you don’t like it? How about this? How about this friend, how about that one? Okay, how about this achievement?

How about this future husband?

Oh still not happy —hmmm I am starting to not feel so great – I am defeated. sigh

I am still trying though for mother, how could I not- I must – I must I felt.

There has to be a way – oh there has to be.

And the reality:

There isn’t.  Some things you just have to accept.  And then you move forward and adjust your life.

Dear Anita,

I have reflected on what we have spoken about over the last two days plenty. One thing came to my mind this morning, it’s about maturity. My mother never differentiated the meaning of immature versus mature. Of course I did not expect her to out right we explain the definition of both or give examples. But most importantly, she never ever gave my sister and I are true example of what maturity is. Of course! She was stuck in a childlike state throwing tantrums here in there when anything didn’t go under her own power.

This other strange but interesting thought this morning after I woke up. I thought about how I am constantly seeking out word, often seeking individuals who are not important to me because in essence I am seeking my mother’s love. I thought, I wonder if my own mother was seeking her mothers love is well. Her mother was troubled, not very involved in raising her given that she had five older siblings, struggled with mental health her whole life, in an out of treatment. Not to say that it matters, and not to say that it really even change is what I am going to now, but an interesting thought none the less.

I was on the subway this morning after these thoughts, headed to work. On the subway there was a young mom, with four children. She was very unkempt and look like an individual, and I apologize if I am being judge mental, but very overwhelmed with children and perhaps not at the emotional mature state to have them. Her youngest child was in a stroller, and the second youngest looked about two years old. A beautiful young boy with curly hair, bouncy curls that you just want to touch. Every time to Subway would make a complete stop, he would be fungal over the seat and fall on the floor. The mother would glance at her phone for a second, and go back to what she was doing on her phone. Each and every time the child would try to crawl back into his mother’s lap crying, looking at her eyes for some sympathy. He wouldn’t receive it. I would notice his face go from a sad frown, to quickly a happy smile as he would start kissing his mom again. He would giggle, and she would kiss him back and then they would play for a few minutes. Then again, the same scenario long down, this time almost hitting his head. Rising back up.

I have course was at first very disturbed by the situation, this poor child, but I also saw that he was so happy. The point of the story is that this child was capable of being so happy no matter what, it’s natural state was not to hate his natural state was to love. His natural state was to love his mother above all, no matter what, no matter what was happening to him.

I looked at this child and his smiling face, kissing his mom all over her face, so happy to be near her. And I thought about how much it takes to traumatize a child, this child, similar to my sweet little dog, has happiness and affection and sweetness as a baseline state, to take that away from a child must take so much hatred. Our mothers are filled with so much evil and hatred and animosity that they would take such a sweet young child and turn them into a negative creature. And it also reminded me about exercise,All the trauma that I have gone through has started much earlier than I recall. Our exercises help me think about that. And observing children has helped me think about that. The only job for a mother is to be attentive and to give love. I am not saying that this is an easy job or a simple one. But first in for most mother needs to give love to a child. If she is unable to do that, she has no business being a mother. I am not judging the mother on the subway saying she’s not giving him love, I am strictly talking about my mother, and perhaps yours. Saying that the most primitive state their job is to provide us love, and they failed at that, the result of this is exactly what we go through each and every day. And what we talked about on here.