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MattParticipantGermaine,
I don’t think your anger is unjustified. Rather, it seems to be your body’s way of keeping you alert to the deception and manipulation. Audre Lorde gave me a new perspective on anger, she said that she used her anger to break free from male-centric control. Your story reminded me of that. Perhaps the nagging isn’t your fear, its your intuition. “You gonna believe me or your lying eyes.” also came to mind.
I’m all for forgiveness and moving an intimacy beyond mistakes and betrayals, but not in the way you’re describing. Repentance requires confession, not manipulation. Worry about letting go of the anger after you’re steadfast… not before.
Perhaps, if they are “just friends” you could all have dinner together and sort things out. In my opinion, you deserve better than a man who lies and cheats. Your dedication to him is apparent, and is an indication of a deeply caring nature. I’m astounded that you waited so long to bring it up! I would have gone to the hospital and stepped on his oxygen tube until he came clean… but luckily for him you’re not like me. 🙂
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantDi,
Its very reasonable that the rigid rules surrounding your life with type 1 diabetes would leak out into other aspects of your perceptions, including very diligent rules on what you’re willing to take in (mentally or physically).
I’m glad to hear you’re interested in self awareness and enlightenment. Consider that enlightenment isn’t like a mountain to climb, its more like a surrendering acceptance to let things be what they really are. If you’re book shopping, consider Mindfulness in Plain English by Henepola Gunaratana. Its pretty awesome, and my guess is it would strike you well!
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantLinds,
It sounds to me like you were more open. When we recognize there is no destiny set out for us, and rather, we choose and lead ourselves toward wherever and whatever, it can be scary. That is why its important to know yourself. For instance, if you have only eaten Mac and cheese for your entire life, if you sit down at a restaurant with a 15 page menu, it will produce stress. So many choices, and no “ground” to choose from… no sense of knowing what you like.
This is why I described discovering our relationship to life like a table of appetizers, where we can take 20 mouthfuls of different foods and see what we like. This helps us develop a ground of self knowing, because as we chew we become more aware of what tastes good to us and what does not. Otherwise we stress, because if we feel we have to switch our Mac and cheese to another single source of nourishment, and are doing it by throwing a dart at a dartboard, we don’t want to trap ourselves by chance.
Inner stability, also called authentic confidence, arises from sampling a bunch of things and seeing what works and doesn’t work for us. Food, hobbies, spiritual practices, romantic partners, movies… as we engage with them and see what happens they help us develop who we are by answering the simple questions “Do I like it? Does it feel right? Does it feel healthy?”
When feeling overwhelmed by the big picture, we can say “this is just fear”. Then we get back into the present moment and say “What is here now? What do I see/hear/smell? Do I see anything here that is appealing?” This grounds us, like roots into the earth, and allows the uncomfortable feelings to dissipate… whereby we can see the magic of freedom again.
Great noticing! Keep it up! One foot, then another, and down the trail of Linds you go!
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantDi,
Excellent! Perhaps you noticed, but you shifted from “him” focused as the source of your issues to “Di” focused. Bravo! That’s where all the magic happens. To answer your question “is this what I should be focused on?” I say in general, we try to work on our side. If you reread the last two messages you wrote, the second is really the area that will help you. As I read the message, a few things came to heart.
Should. What a tricky word! When we consider ideas such as “husband” and “marriage” and “lessons in this moment”, the word “should” doesn’t fit well. There is no solid “should” that is at the heart of any of those… each of those is much more subjective than that. For instance, a marriage means different things to different people, and there is nothing specific that a marriage should be. Rather, there is what you would like it to be, what you expect it to be, and what it is. Those are enough!
When we apply “should” to it, what we’re really saying is either 1. We’re stuck in our brain thinking there is only one way, which does not take other peoples views and opinions into account. Or 2. We feel insecure that our desires are not important, so we reach for an external source to validate our desire instead of saying “I would like it that way.”
For instance, you want to have a marriage that is different than what you have now, and that is enough! Its enough to say “Di wants a marriage based on trust.” and put away “Marriage should be based on trust.” One is full of Di-empowement, Di-self knowing, Di-self confidence, and one is full of judgement and appealing to an external authority. Can you see the difference?
The same idea applies to “need” and “supposed to”. There is a quote I’ve seen from the Buddha that we become what we think. This seems to me to be part of what is generating your difficulty. As you think and say “should”, “need” and “supposed to” its like creating a stone statue of expectation that you then bump up against and feel pain. For instance if marriage should be honest, when you meet up against a moment where honesty is not present, your mind recoils. “This is not marriage! This is dishonesty!” This is very painful and seems unworkable… solid, unchanging.
Instead, when we think marriage “could” be honest, we create a sense of deep seeing into the potential life we could be living. If it could be such a way, but it isn’t, what can be done to make it that way? It softens judgement into preference, which is where we can discover forgiveness and compromise. If we say “the counter could be clear” for instance, we are envisioning a counter without all the trinkets and dodads and mail and loose change… and are setting up the conditions to clear it. If we say “the counter should be clear” then each trinket and doodad is a painful reminder that something is wrong. It may sound like a small difference, but it is a very important one!
What we begin to see is that different people have different ideas on what to clean up and what isn’t important to clean up. For instance, your husband likes to keep the “happy thoughts” counter clean and is not worried about the “honesty” counter. You are opposite. You don’t mind being uncomfortable (“happy thoughts” counter cluttered) if it means keeping the honesty counter clean. We all have different areas we feel are important, and keeping intimacy alive means both people are happy with what areas are clean.
This is where boundaries are very important. For instance, if you say “you lied, which made me angry, and so you have to stop doing that.” it is lashing out with your desire and creating a rigid and fragile boundary that he can break by saying “your problem.” If you say “when you are dishonest, I feel upset because honesty is something I need for trust, and trust is something that I want to have in my relationship.” Then it is not only softer because it is stating your preference, but it is also something he cannot break… he can’t say its “your problem” only “your desire”. If he honors the desires important to you, the two of you will grow closer. If he does not, you won’t. See how simple it becomes?
Pia Melody’s book on codependency is really something I recommend. It has very practical advice on what to do to create and maintain healthy boundaries, and how to keep a lookout for triggers that send a mind into codependent patterns.
Finally, what do you do to self-nurture? Do you meditate? Take baths alone with bubbles and candles? Do you go on walks alone? Many times the “hard knots of should and need” very naturally disappear when we take time to care for ourselves. Make sure you are doing things just for you, that you want, that make you feel happy and good, that bring out the playful and joyful girl-Di. She is still in there, and will help tremendously in keeping your mind and heart light.
Keep up the great work, I’m really excited and impressed with the shifting of language and perspective as we’ve been talking. It feels like you’re ripe to let go and move on, either from him or from your suffering… either way its a good move. You’ve been beaten up by your brain for far too long in my opinion. This world can be a soft and loving place, full of tender moments and gentle sighs… its just something we have to work on from our side, and we let the outside catch up or fall away (such as husband). Namaste!
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantKim,
I’m sorry for the painful experiences you’re experiencing, and I am impressed with the length and breadth of your post! You certainly captured a ton of information in those few lines. A few things came to heart as I read your post (and I did read the whole of it, you’re welcome. :))
It sounds to me like you’ve been being used as a bandage for his lonesomeness, where perhaps he calls on you when he’s not distracted from his feeling of being alone. Perhaps though, it would be better to ask yourself “why did I go back so many times?” Perhaps he is a bandage for your loneliness too? Especially with the conditions of your meeting just after divorce, perhaps you need to take some time away so you can heal from the way you get lost in the “we”ness of a relationship.
Do you know who Kim is? What do you do to self-nurture? Are you a careful caretaker of Kim’s heart? Do you burn the journal pages or reread them?
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantAmy,
I’m sorry for the pain and suffering you’re going through, and I’m glad that you’re looking to resolve this mysterious cycle. It is a testament to the potency of your heart that you could even consider staying with him, and I simultaneously applaud and admire that in you. As I read your words, a few things came to heart.
My teacher told me that the reason many seek to meditate (and other forms of personal development) is because they are in enough pain that to do otherwise doesn’t make sense. In this way, meditation becomes like an antacid for an upset stomach. We eat unskillfully, either in excess or content, and we are left feeling cruddy. So we pop an antacid and feel better. Then, because our stomach feels better we start thinking about dessert, or maybe just a little second helping, and the pain comes right back. So we pop another antacid. This seems like the essential nature of your cycle.
To bring it back to your specific situation, it seems like being with him is draining your energy. Some have called narcissists “energy vampires” because their self-centric view doesn’t give much back, so its like flushing energy down the toilet. You meditate, and come back to the inner Amy, who loves unconditionally and powerfully. This certainly changes everything in your view, not just your view of him, but your view of everything. The inner Amy is proud, strong and buoyant… and she parts the difficulties with simplicity and grace.
However, once you turn your attention on your ex-husband (isn’t he, after all?) that “shiny view” sees him in a hopeful light, where anything is possible. So you stop practicing meditation and self-nurturing whereby you are hit by two drains. The stopping, and his self-centeredness. He’s not the one changing, remember, your indigestion is settling, your heart clearing… you’re the one growing. So you dance a little bit in the old pattern and quickly fall back into energy depression.
The solution is really accepting that his patterns are corrosive to your well being and wish him well at a distance. Keep at the development and meditation, even when he appears to sparkle. You need to break the momentum, and so perhaps if you know “as I meditate, he (and all things) look more beautiful, but right now if I let him back in, his patterns will drain me dry. Again. And again.” In this way, meditation is no longer an antacid for an upset mind, but a proactive journey toward health and growth.
You definitely deserve that freedom, as the potency of your unbridled heart is far too rare and precious in this world to allow it to be drained by a taker. When you break free and invest that love in one who truly gives the love back, all things will be possible for you. Its just turning away from the desserts is much more difficult when the stomach feels fine, but that is the best thing we can do for ourselves. I know you can do it, just keep those feet moving!
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantWell, in the absence of and your resistance to “spiritual ideas” there is no reason why it “had to” happen. The bird was wild, flew into a fan because it had low cognitive functioning of a small and feral brain that had no way of incorporating a stimuli such as a fan, whereby the speed and mass of the fan blade provided too much force for the bones in the bird to resist, breaking its spine, which disrupted the functioning of its organs and caused internal bleeding whereby the cells in its body didn’t have the oxygen and glucose they needed to function, so they stopped functioning. Why would your feelings of ‘right’ make any difference to a physical process such as this?
MattParticipantLinds,
Its pretty normal to wake up with odd emotions. When we dream, we often defragment memory and feelings and so forth, so especially turbulent or changing times can produce especially powerful emotions.
What I have found to be very helpful is to do some sitting meditation in the morning. We wake up, shower to clean our body, brush our teeth to clean our mouth, and meditate to clean our mental and emotional state. Consider searching YouTube for “jayasaro counting breaths” for a simple technique.
For the other questions, Zenhen had some interesting ideas. What I see is a little different but compatible. Consider that when we are hungry, and we see a commercial for some food on television we think “yes, that!” and go to the store or restaurant to get the item. We eat it, and the hunger goes away. Then we eat it some more, and find when we’re not hungry, its not as nourishing and tasty as before. They say cooks can’t cook as well when hungry, and so they eat before cooking so the true taste is available to them.
In your situation, perhaps the dream of doing all these things is really just you saying “I am unhappy with what is here and now inside me.” This can be resolved by self nurturing, such as meditation, nature walks, candlelit baths, saying nice things to yourself, spending time wishing for your happiness and so forth. Then, as you feel complete and stable, as you go explore what you like it won’t be in contrast to the dream, you’ll be living it. So if you pick up a ukulele and play it awhile and then think “meh, not as fun as I thought” it will be nothing to put it down and move on to the next thing. It doesn’t become “oh no, am I empty of something that makes this stink?” This is a world like a table filled with appetizers… if one doesn’t make your mind sparkle, just move on. Its in the trying, the moving that we find joy… because when we find something that is strongly resonant, we don’t have to work up the inspiration to do it, it calls to us with an unmistakable allure.
That being said, everything we do takes effort to become skillful. If we are just encountering some resistance because our fingers get sore from playing the uke, or we are discouraged because we’re not mastering it fast enough… well we just get our butt back on the cushion and meditate… the feelings of discouragement settle, the fingers callous, and when we get up we are refreshed and ready to take the next step…
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantDi,
Whew! Great post, you really laid it out there! I can sympathize with the difficulty you’re going through, and respect the feelings that arise when we are in a turbulent intimacy. I think its great that you’ve been to Al-anon, and I feel that much of your piece of mind will come as you continue your recovery from codependency. Have you read any of Pia Melody’s work? Its very compatible with the four agreements, and is well targeted to the types of maladaptive patterns you seem to be stuck in.
To begin to untangle the knot of suffering you’re enduring, it is important to get a better understanding of how to stop making his actions all about you. For example, you say lying is a form of mind control, and perhaps if you look at it differently you can break free from such a painful thought (and apply it to other instances of the same pattern).
Consider that there are two sides during the event. On your side, you honor a feeling of knowing, of honesty, of intimacy and truth. On his side, he honors a sense of peacefulness, non-confrontation, and following his desires. When he decides that his actions are not acceptable to you, he invents or ignores. On your side, when he lies, you make it about you, as though he “should” be honest to you and therefore is dishonoring and controlling you. This leads your mind to be very aggressive and attempts to control him. Instead of “wow, his uncomfortable feelings make him act unskillfully, that is sad and painful for him” you make it about you. “He is making me feel worried and deceived which he should not do.” What you’re doing with this is handing over the keys to your peace of mind. Said differently, when we depend on others to act the right way in order for us to feel happy, we lose all of our power to become happy.
Yes, you say, but marriage means certain things must be. This is not true. Marriage means different things to different people, and it seems there is a bit of a difference between you and him in this regard. It is true that both of your behaviors and coping mechanisms are harmful to the intimacy. He justifies, deceives, argues and follows his addictions (suppression patterns). You judge, decide right from wrong, declare yourself the truth keeper and make his actions about you (aggression patterns).
He says to you that he deserves the right to do whatever he wants. I wholeheartedly agree. His actions have real consequences, such as eroding the intimacy… but that doesn’t mean he should be prevented from doing that. Said differently, if he is going to drink, it is a wasted effort to try to prevent him. If he is going to lie, it is wasted effort to try to stop him. You can invite him to examine how certain actions lead toward deeper intimacy and certain actions lead to erosion of intimacy, but you have no right or ability to make him choose.
Another difficulty I read in your words is the old codependent motto “He makes me feel…” which is false. The recovery from this stuck pattern of destructive thinking is “when he does this, I feel this.” The important thing is to recover your sovereignty… because others do not make us feel anything. They act, we interpret, and our interpretations determine the feelings. If we forget or ignore the interpretation portion, there is nothing we can do but control their actions to prevent our painful feelings. If we accept that the interpretation is the genesis of the feeling, then we can do something, because all of that is on our side, in our mind and body.
All that being said, it sounds like the two of you aren’t a great fit at the moment. You can’t make him change, but you can change your circumstances. I’m not saying g that the relationship is doomed, but it does sound like you’re trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. And, you say that you’re unwilling to change because you’re seeing the truth, and he is unwilling to change. So… what to do? Compromise is always necessary in intimacy, and if neither of you can or are willing, its just a matter of time before on of you gets fed up with pushing.
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantKyle,
You seem like a very well put together young man, and what you’re going through is very common. Consider that you love your dad and fear your love for you dad. In the past, you said that you closed down somewhat while you lived with him, and that’s normal too.
Consider regarding the overwhelming feeling as just another feeling. Said differently, courage only arises when fear is present, and it is what moves us to do the thing we’re scared of doing. What if he has now turned that resentment and distance toward you? What if in his mind, you are now just like your mom and brother, an object of scorn? Its possible, even probable! However, remember what happened to your resentment and scorn of your mother when she was compassionate to you. It melted! If he has scorn, it is almost certainly melt-able just like yours.
If he has scorn and resentment, its just his pain. Parent’s love for their kids goes deep, and I have no doubt that under whatever distance has come up, whatever uncomfortableness is in him that keeps him away, there is a longing in him to hear he is loved from your mouth. Just as you had for your mom!
Perhaps you could jump and see what happens! Even if it goes poorly and is painful, it will be less painful than the imaginings and unknown you’ve got now.
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantI know, right? Sometimes its like “what in the world is going on in here!” 🙂
Here is the sutta… this translation is “dart” instead of “arrow”http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.nypo.html
In this context (as used in vajrayana explanation for karma begets karma) the uncertainty of criticism was the first arrow, which lead to the uncertainty of development, the second arrow. 🙂 Dum de Dum de dum, along the trail we go…
MattParticipantWell said! There is freedom at every step, though! Perhaps consider it is like pooping. We digest, we poop (with all sorts of sensations), we clean up (return to the cushion) and keep going. Why all the aversion to aversion? Why the aversion to clinging? Perhaps insecure that you’re doing it wrong? Afraid your spinning is eternal? That’s just insecurity, that’s just fear. A “second arrow” if you know that story from the Buddha.
It reminds me of when I was a kid and I used to hate to clean my room. I would sit and weep and feel my mom hated me and on and on I would lament over it. Now, if its dirty I clean it when its ripe to do so. Why all the fuss? 🙂 Its not the cleaning that is painful, its the aversion. “Ha! I was sucked in again, what a hoot! Silly rabbit, trix are for kids.” Sometimes your inner “John” takes himself way to seriously!
MattParticipantYou just don’t have answers you like, but no words will bring the bird back. Namaste, I wish you peace.
MattParticipantDi,
Could you be more specific on what conditions surround your saying “I’m not ok with that.”? Are you being asked to do something such as spend money or go do something? Is it in response to the way he is seeing things? Boundaries are fairly specific to what is being asked of you or what is around you, so it would help aim a pertinent response.
In regards to getting sucked into 15 minutes of this and that, consider that often we unintentionally feed cycles. If you are insisting on “truth” what you’re really doing is clinging to your side of things… seeing your view as True and his as False. This is not what is real. What is True is that you have views and he has views, and the coming together of those views is True, but the content of those views are both only subjectivity true. Said differently, what you’re seeing is not True, its just what you’re seeing. If what you were seeing was ultimate truth, the end all be all of deep seeing and clear comprehension, there would be no struggle, no problem, no separation between you and him…just breathing in compassion and breathing out kindness.
That being said, as we nourish the roots of our self awareness we become more confident in the direction we’re walking. That is why it would be helpful to know more specifics surrounding your “not ok with that” question! Also, keep it up! It seems like you’re heading in a great direction with your development, and with a few tweaks here and there peace of mind is right around the corner! 🙂
With warmth,
MattMattParticipantJohn,
I’m reminded of a drop of dew sliding off a leaf. Sometimes while that drop of dew is in the mind, it seems like quite a big thing. Its not, there’s no need to push it, pull it, resist it or hate it… it forms, and then it slides past. We all get pulled into thoughts like that, and meditative development doesn’t stop them from forming… it opens up the space around them.
Aversion (gah, why do I think that way!) or clinging (these thoughts are who I am) just makes them feel sticky… but they simply arise as the perceptions we have condense into “me views” like moisture from the air. They’re not you, they don’t mean you’re not past them… it just means there is still a pattern of clinging. As we become more aware they seem bigger, more potent… but that’s just because we can tell the difference. Said differently, when karma ripens it seems like quite a big thing because it is painful, but it goes without a need for us to do anything. Practice isn’t about stopping thoughts, its about making the mind pliable, open… so as the drop of dew slides back into the pond the mind doesn’t need to ponder “what was that” or grab for it “wait, come back… something important was in there”.
With warmth,
Matt -
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