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AdrienneParticipant
Hi Katylee,
Thank you for your kind words. I especially liked what you said about “loving a man who is not free to be loved”; that is an excellent way to put it and gets right to the root of it. And I’m not free either!
I had a little talk with my husband this morning to say that we need to work on our relationship a bit more. We have been distant and more like roommates the past few months. I’m sure that is part of the reason I found myself attracted to this other man. Just feeling noticed and listened to felt so great.
Again, thank you for your insight!AdrienneParticipantLadies, thank you so much for these posts, especially you Katylee because your warning is what I need to read right now.
A few weeks ago I met a man and we had an intense connection. We are both married with children and I don’t think either of us was/are looking for anything outside our marriages.
How we ended up connecting with each other is because both of us are married to devout Catholics and we feel trapped in going to the Catholic Church when we converted to our spouse’s faith. Both my children and his are being raised Catholic and I agreed to that before my husband and I married. Sixteen years later, I do not want to be Catholic anymore but I feel stuck because of what I agreed to all those years ago. His children are younger and are going to Catholic School which they have to pay for. He doesn’t really want his children raised Catholic anymore. Both of us are upset over the most recent allegations of child abuse against the Church.
We both were so relieved to find someone who felt the same way; we both feel stuck in a religion we don’t want to be a part of. That was the basis for our connection. We have emailed a few times and spoken on the phone once. Part of me wants him to not contact me anymore so any feelings I have might fade away. But I also wish I could keep him as a friend because he is the only other person I know of who feels like I do about being stuck being Catholic. I can’t deny I’m attracted to him too.
I’ve never been in this position before and at first it felt thrilling but now I know it’s a no-win situation.
AdrienneParticipantYou are right about my husband not being assertive. He is a “keep the peace” type of person too. He rarely lets other people’s behavior upset him. His feeling is “well, people will just be people”. In some ways that lets people get away with poor behavior and act without integrity.
I just watched a video by Mel Robbins regarding money and integrity. She says in a case where you have to choose money or integrity, always choose integrity. My BIL and SIL have chosen money over acting with integrity. I feel like I know who they really are now, and it was actually something I had already known – they like nice things. Nice things come first. I saw the writing on the wall with this loan and I am disappointed to be proved right.
At least I have a good excuse for denying a loan to anyone else ever again: bad experience! Basically if ever approached for a loan again I will just say, “I’m sorry but we are not in a position to help out right now.”
This situation is not the only difficult one I’ve had in recent years and my anxiety has not been significantly improved with self-help and self-care so I am going to see a counsellor next week. I’ve been off anxiety meds for 11 years and vowed I would never go back on them, but this thing is really impacting my life in a negative way and I think I need help.
AdrienneParticipantHi Allyson,
I am so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine what you are going through.
In terms of making new friends, know that you are not alone in that struggle. When we become adults, many people feel that they already have all the friends they will ever need and don’t open themselves up to making new ones. Other people have been hurt in friendships and shut themselves down from making new ones because they are afraid of being hurt again.
In my stage of life most of the women I meet are moms, and I’m a mom too, and we get so busy with our families and responsibilities and jobs and whatnot that we just don’t have the time or mental energy for new friends (or even our previous friendships, often we let them slide).
I am from another country and moved here 12 years ago, my husband is in the military and we move a lot. So making new friends is not easy. Most of the people I meet become acquaintances and never a close friend. I think I’ve come to accept this. Also I’m an introvert so I shy away from making close friends anyway.
I’m not sure if this is helpful but it might give you a perspective on how it isn’t easy to make new friends and that most adults find it hard so you are not alone.
One thing you could try is making a penpal. There is a website called penpalworld dot com. I made a friend from Norway and we chat back and forth. It’s an outlet and is not fraught with too much anxiety because you will likely never meet them in person. Perhaps join a grief support group, too. It might be comforting to be able to talk with people about the loss of your mother in an encouraging environment.
I agree with Anita about being cautious with new acquaintances. You don’t really know people and how they will behave when they are stressed or angry. Guard yourself and your feelings cautiously.
Peace to you, Allyson!
AdrienneParticipantNot only am I a people pleaser, I am known in the family as the “peace maker”. I am very conflict-avoidant. I’m not sure why but I suspect a bunch of reasons have contributed. I was bullied by some classic Mean Girls in 6th grade when I started at a new school. One day they would be my friends, the next they would pull my hair, flush my socks down the toilet in gym class, etc. I think I learned not to trust people from that experience.
At some point after I learned that if you don’t make waves, that if you make yourself small, don’t give anyone any reason to not like you then you can get through life without too much pain.
But the pain comes anyway, no matter what you do. I often fantasize about running away from home, living alone in some cabin in the woods with no contact with the outside world, lol.
As an update to my BIL, he emailed me yesterday to say that he done a deposit of $2,500 and I see it has appeared in our bank account. So, we are down to $9,100. At least it’s less than half of what we loaned out. My husband says he is going to call his brother to discuss my freakout and explain my anxiety disorder to him, etc. So then I started to feel bad, like I made a big deal about it and maybe this whole thing is my fault. If I had just left it alone they would have paid something on the loan, and no one would be mad at me.
I don’t know what to think. Maybe my anxiety disorder made me over-react to the Facebook post showing their latest purchase? It has been years of expensive purchases (I forgot to mention the $750 designer dog they got a year ago). Was I wrong to get upset about it? Am I the crazy “bad guy”here?
AdrienneParticipantI was having severe anxiety yesterday regarding this situation and I am trying to bring more peace to it today. I know it will be a back and forth type of thing; I expect one day I will be more at peace with it than the next.
I think I will ruminate on why I have become a people-pleaser all these years, though I am learning to stand up for myself more and more (a benefit perhaps of being in my 40s!) I have a wonderful support system in another of my sisters-in-law (my brother’s wife) and she has been a gift to me right now.
I appreciate your advice about sitting down with my husband and deciding are we are on the same page with this or not. It is his brother, after all.
As for myself, I can’t really see going to visit them in the future and they will not be welcome at my house (unless things change drastically). Luckily they live 16 hours away so we don’t have to bump into each other at the grocery store. My parents live half an hour from them so if my husband wants to take the kids over for a visit, I can stay at my parents house.
Thanks again for responding, Anita, I appreciate it.
AdrienneParticipantI was just reading a quote about forgiveness. I always have struggled with forgiving people, and also forgiving myself, I think.
The quote said forgiving is to “make peace” with it. I like that better than the word forgiveness.
Even though forgiveness isn’t about letting someone off the hook for the wrong they’ve done you, I can’t seem to think of the word “forgive” any other way.
I need to start making peace with this situation. For myself, because it’s eating me up.
You’re right about having compassion for myself. Some self-care is in order, I think.
I emailed my BIL yesterday to ask when we might expect a deposit this week as he promised and he has not responded. I guess avoidance is the game they are playing now.
My husband isn’t keen on me making a big scene about this. I feel I’m in an awkward position.
AdrienneParticipantThanks Anita. I appreciate your insight. 🙂
AdrienneParticipantHey Pearce,
Thank you for that advice. I hope it doesn’t come to that but that’s why I got a promissory note: I saw the writing on the wall.
So, my SIL was very defensive. The purchase was one of those expensive wooden playsets for their backyard and her post was about how excited their kids would be in the morning. It sent me over the edge! I thought it was new, but it turns out it was used, which she retorted to me, saying it was only $500 (plus $60 for a Uhaul to move it) and it was a “golden opportunity” and they “just couldn’t pass it up”.
She went on to say she didn’t want to take the loan any more than I wanted to give it.But they DID take the loan, so it’s their responsibility to pay it back. She is from another country and said they were going to forego a trip to her homeland in order to “get their finances in order”.
Oh, there is no question, we will NEVER NEVER EVER give them, or any other family member a loan ever again!
Thanks for your kind words. They are much appreciated right now.
AdrienneParticipantHi Anita,
You are totally right but I am trying to work through this emotionally and kind of apply some Buddhist principles to it (I’m a novice at this) about accepting suffering and how suffering is brought on ourselves when we have expectations, and finding a way to have compassion and forgiveness even for those who treat us poorly. I’m trying to be Zen about this shit, lol.
And, I am struggling for sure…
My BIL promised a payment this week. So far nothing has shown up. I’ll give him to Friday and then I’ll contact him. It won’t be the whole amount, but he promised $2,500. Then, I will email him once a month asking for a payment. No doubt my being silent since March means to him that I don’t mind that we are not being repaid. I definitely struggle with being a people pleaser and not wanting to make waves. But I’m also the kind of person when I get pushed too far I get really angry. They are treading on thin ice with me right now.
AdrienneParticipantThanks Pearce. I am so sorry to hear about what you went through with your family members when you loaned them money (such a large amount, too). I said from the beginning that this was going to be the outcome and I hate that I am right. My husband isn’t very bothered by it, he says “they’ll pay it back eventually” but it really just pisses me off. I know my husband wouldn’t let it ruin his relationship with his brother, but I’m just not that forgiving.
After I sent the email to his wife saying I was upset about their recent purchase, my BIL texted my husband to say he would send us $2,500 this week. We shall see. My BIL is very religious, and claims to be a very moral person, but this money situation has shown me another side of him, one that puts status above all else.
I hope it doesn’t come to legal action. I see that in my state (though they live in another state) there is 6 year statute of limitations on a promissory note. We are blessed that we are not in need of the money right now (though I don’t want them to know that!) The thing that irks me too is that my BIL doesn’t pay us anything unless I bitch at him. So I guess I’ll have to make it a habit to approach him once a month to ask about the loan. Perhaps just annoying the hell out of him might work.
Thanks again for your perspective! Greatly appreciated 🙂
AdrienneParticipantHi Anita,
No he didn’t say exactly when he would be paying it back, but he also didn’t say that he would not be paying it back either. When we went to their house to visit this summer we saw his new (used) Lexus, we saw his Apple Watch and their Amazon Echo, a new fence around their pool, etc. All of these things were shown to us with the excuse, “well, we just got such a good deal on it.”I believe the intention is still to repay what is owing, but from all their purchases it seems clear to me that paying us back is not a priority, buying stuff is. They are very status oriented and everything has to be name-brand and top-of-the-line.
I’m struggling with compassion as they both grew up with a lot of financial instability and seem to have issues with acquiring expensive objects to fill some sort of void. However, my husband is his brother and does not have the same issues with money. It’s very complex, our relationships with money and ourselves. I understand that.
I’m the kind of person if I owe someone money it eats me up until it’s paid off. I’m trying to understand that not everyone feels that way. I feel sad that things seem more important to them than our relationship.
Thanks for responding 🙂
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