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Am I being an idiot?

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  • June 12, 2015 at 9:51 am #78132
    Abhi09
    Participant

    Hello all.

    It’s a long story and I would be telling only the truth here. I want to get frank opinion regarding a matter which I am unable to solve on my own and has been eating me up since a very long time and has led to anxiety as well as decreased productivity.

    I am a college student. It all started two years ago. I liked a girl and I approached her and we became friends. I didn’t tell her that I like her though for a few months and we went on to chat on the phone or on facebook(I haven’t talked to her much face to face as we are in different departments in our college and don’t have any same classes) but then one day over chat she was teasing me that I should get a girlfriend and I confessed to her that I like her. She said that she didn’t like me like that and also that she is commitment phobic. There were times when she used to tease me by saying things like, ‘I know you wouldn’t miss me'(when she was going on a trip) and things like that. So I thought that even she likes me. That hurt me much more than the rejection because I felt that she shouldn’t have said all those things even though I knew that she might be joking only as she tends to talk like that but I was hoping that there might be some attraction behind that. So, after our chat on whatsapp was over, I messaged to her that I was afraid that this would change things between us and our friendship won’t remain the same. I didn’t get any reply from her. I believe this is the point where I should have broken all contacts. But, let’s continue..

    I kept on thinking and decided that I shouldn’t have sent that message that our friendship would change. The thing is she used to talk to me about things which she never told to anybody else(so she said), so I thought I should respect her friendship also.At that time there was no hidden agenda or hope of anything. So I messaged to her on facebook saying sorry, she didn’t reply but on whatsapp I asked her how she was and then she asked me to forget everything and be friends again. So I agreed and we started chatting again.I started initiating the chat less than before as I sill liked her and I knew that it is futile. But once I ignored her chat and she asked me the reason so I told her that I still like her. She told me that she likes me as well and did thought sometimes about me. She said that the reason she said no last time is that she felt that she is not good enough for me and that she does not get attached to people and is less likely to get attached to me. She said that it’s due to her upbringing( She is a single child and both her parents have been working. Her father gets transferred to different cities once in few years.) I was shocked and told her that she need not think so negative about her but she didn’t reply. Then we finished that chat.

    I hoped to receive a reply from her regarding this matter but later she started ignoring me. This was during the vacations. I used to message to her but she only responded minimally. I asked her something and she used to reply and that’s it. On new years, this year I asked her that why was she ignoring me and she said she wasn’t ignoring me, she was busy with projects( which she actually was). But I knew that she was lying.

    Later after our college reopened, she messaged me and I didn’t reply because I was hurt. Later when I asked why did she message, she told me that she was drunk so doesn’t remember why she pinged me. I was hurt and even confronted her a few days later about thins strange behaviour but all she said was that she does not feel comfortable opening up to anyone and that I should forget about the chat we had about liking each other and she was really busy during vacations and wasn’t ignoring me.

    I asked that if she felt uncomfortable talking about that topics, she should have directly told me so. She said’ The point is , I don’t care if what I did is right or wrong, I don’t want to think about it’. This broke me and I just haven’t been able to recover fully.

    I had a very low self-esteem at that point and so used to cry about her behaviour and used to feel as if I was worthless. I wrote a long message to her asking her about her actions and exclaimed that I don’t understand what kind of friendship this is. She said that I shouldn’t doubt her friendship and she was just busy.

    Then we went on normally, we resumed talking although less frequently. Still, I felt that maybe this friendship is not right for me as I am unable to move on and also maybe this friendship does not mean anything to her as she demonstrated through her behaviour. I did tell her about this(through long messages)but got the same reply or sometimes no reply at all. I told her about the depression and also that I feel she doesn’t understand friendship. Last month she called me and said that I was wrong to feel that she doesn’t understand friendship and my message about depression made her feel guilty. She said that I was wrong to expect her to raise that topic again and she indeed was ignoring me and the reason was to give me time to move on. She said that she doesn’t feel the need to justify her thoughts and actions and so doesn’t reply to my messages questioning her behavior. She said that she liked me before but now she doesn’t as I am too serious and too sensitive. So I told her that I should stop talking. She said that she completely understands.

    But I don’t know why maybe because I felt worthless or my ego was hurt, I messaged her twice, once apologising for judging her friendship and that I would remain the same(serious, sensitive, etc). Once I messaged her wishing all the best for exams as i was in a good mood and just felt like.I got no reply. Again 2 days back I asked her about why she didn’t reply to which she said that she is fed up of all these long messages from me and it’s inappropriate of me that every once in a while I send her a message and expect her to reply and there is no point replying to these messages as we would get back to square one. She said ‘Leave it. You understand whatever you want to understand’.

    Thank you for reading the long post.

    Now I want to know the right course of action.
    I personally don’t want to stay friends with her.
    I have only one semester left in college and I don’t want to waste that time. I have already wasted a lot.

    I feel that if she would have valued the friendship, she should have told me honestly that she was ignoring me and whenever i confronted her about the issue, she should have at least told me the truth instead of ignoring and saying that she didn’t care.

    I know I was wrong to disturb her with long messages but I wanted to clarify matters and confirm if she values this friendship or not. The thing is even if I want to ignore her now, I feel that it would be wrong and all of this is my fault.

    I believe I should have stopped talking to her when she didn’t reply to my message about our friendship not remaining the same anymore(when I told her that I liked her and she declined) as if she really cared about it she would have at least called me.

    What should I do? And could you also advise me as to how should I be firm and not care about others as I think I sometimes can be a pushover and care too much about whether I would hurt someone or not.

    June 12, 2015 at 11:03 am #78133
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear ab786:
    You asked “what should I do?” I am quite tempted to tell you what to do. It is so clear to me what it is that you should do. But I don’t want to be that person that tells people what to do. Seems arrogant to me and I have done that many times. Hmmm… Okay, I will just tell you the thoughts I had as I read your whole post: I was thinking: this girl has problems. I thought she is not honest. I thought whe is mind **** you and is sometimes manipulative.
    she may have a valid point here and there, much like a broken clock is right twice every 24 hours, but overall she is dishonest, untrustworthy to tell the truth- either to herself and/ or to you.

    Do you agree with me? On any or much or all of it?

    If you agree enough- how do you feel about placing yourself in a position where you are emotionally dependent on a person who is dishonest, manipulative, untrustworthy and who at times made you feel good? I mean. the feel good at times is the reason motivating you to keep contact?

    What do you do when you are attracted to a person who is dishonest, untrustworthy and hurtful to you?

    anita

    June 12, 2015 at 11:28 am #78134
    Abhi09
    Participant

    Hello Anita ma’am.

    Thanx for your reply.

    The thing is, like I said I did like her before becoming her friend. And that attraction was not limited to her looks. I fell for some of her qualities- she is cheerful, bubbly and talks to a lot of people.(This is what I heard and saw). At that time, I was feeling sad and had low confidence for being an introvert and so her being a cheerful person who talks to a lot of people etc. attracted me to her. Plus I also found her very pretty. I am hundred percent sure as to the fact that she was honest with me as long as I didn’t tell her that I liked her and was really into her. She didn’t manipulate me then. But now it feels as if she has emotional issues as she runs away from anything serious. One friend warned me that I should stay away from her as her attitude is neutral. I just took a long time to understand that this whole thing isn’t good for me and it was my bruised ego which wanted compassion basically and reassurance from her that yes she is a good friend. You can understand that if you like someone and that person doesn’t like you, then at least you want some compassion from her or at least a certain tenderness to reassure you. I mean if I had to reject a female friend of mine and she messages me saying that things would change between us, I would at least call and try to lessen her hurt and then whatever she decides I would go with that. I never got that.
    But even if I ignore it, never once has she felt apologetic for her ignoring to me and lying to me about it. The only reason she called me was because she felt guilty( She asked me to give her a time when she could call me or else if she called me at any time, I would put the blame on her for disturbing my studies like I put the blame for my depression on her).These words just left me crying and for days I was just like a madman, thinking what I could have done better, what do I do now. My studies suffered because of it.

    And whatever you said is correct but what should I do now? She is pissed off right now, but she would definitely send a message after college opens. What should I do then? Ignore her messages for sometime(to give her a taste of her own medicine) and later tell her properly or should I tell her directly?

    June 12, 2015 at 5:04 pm #78141
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear ab786:
    I am sorry you are suffering. I really am. I wish it wasn’t so. I wish you had the relationship you want and need with this girl. Unfortunately, as you know, wishing doesn’t make it so.

    I hope you separate what is real from what is fantasy. Your fantasy about this extroverted, bubbly, pretty girl is different from the reality that you have been experiencing not happiness but misery in communication with her.

    If I was you, I would let go of her: stop all communication with her. End the madness. Stop your bleeding, so to speak. Stop the suffering. Grieve the loss of your fantasy about having a love relationship or even a compassionate relationship of any kind with her. The answer to your distress, the loneliness before you met her- is NOT with her.

    You are an intelligent, educated young man. When you asked if you are an idiot, my answer is as far as the intelligence of your heart, yes, you are. Or I should say, you have been. It is not wise to chase misery.

    anita

    June 12, 2015 at 6:21 pm #78145
    Adam P
    Participant

    Hey there ab786,

    WOW absolutely WOW,

    your story is absolutely similar to what I experienced back in college as well. I see that you are an introvert and as a fellow introvert there is no reason to be ashamed. There are plenty of confident introverts out in the world who just need their own space.
    As for your issues with your female friend, it can be very frustrating dealing with someone who has a lot of emotional pain from their past which in turn can cause you to keep “pouring” your emotions and energy for that person.
    My best advice to you would be to go no contact with her. Yes I’m aware it will hurt, but the NC is meant to help you heal not to purposely hurt her or get back at her. During this time, you will do a lot of self reflection and in time understand that you were an enabler for her behavior and realize that some people just go through life with the wind. If you need to, electronically block all contact with her. I assume you are still in school and if she is still on campus, I would strongly recommend no acknowledgement and if you have to just keep it short with a “Hi” and go about your business.

    If you still need some help, let me know.

    Take Care

    June 12, 2015 at 10:54 pm #78152
    Abhi09
    Participant

    Thank you Guys. Your words are acting as a medicine for my disease of depression. I am really somewhat feeling better now. Your advice has strengthened my resolve to stop all contact with her. I think I would ignore her from now on and if at all she asks me the reason, I would explain that it is not healthy for me to be friends with her.

    The thing that’s bugging me is that why can’t people just introspect instead of avoiding things. Why run away? The only reason I still felt like continuing the friendship is because I felt that may be because of her upbringing, she is hurt and even after having so many friends, if she is unable to open up then how much pain would she be carrying so I should not hurt her even more by terminating the friendship. Sometimes I can feel her pain of feeling detached from everyone else and not being able to communicate her feelings because of the fear of being judged, etc. She can small talk with anyone but when it comes to opening up her heart, she gets uncomfortable. So, I thought that I should be patient and wait for her to at least think about her behavior and then talk properly about her behavior. But all she had was ‘ I wasn’t talking to you to give you time to sort out things and move on’. I know that this was the reason, but her lack of willingness to tell the truth at the appropriate time weakened my belief that I could have a satisfying friendship with her.

    Now I want to just focus on myself and not think about her as I feel I would be doing great injustice to myself(which I already have, to some extent) by not setting up appropriate boundaries.

    I am starting to believe that past pain is no longer a reason for her to avoid introspection and caring about others. I told this to her as well that this excuse of her : ” I am like this only. Maybe due to my upbringing.I like small talk only.I don’t feel the need to justify my thoughts and actions.” is not a reason for her to do whatever she feels like. I don’t know if she would act on it or not. When she called me, she did ask me about whether she could do anything for me repeatedly so I thought that yes even she cares for me but may be that was to get rid off her guilt as she told me that my talk about feeling sad etc. made her guilty. So I was confused what to make of her. Does she care or does she not?

    But I am now starting to heal a bit and hoping that one day I might get the answer for her behavior. It does not sound good but sometimes I just feel like hurting her for what she did to me, not physically but through harsh words. I know I wouldn’t do that as it would cause more pain to me later on and also the guilt, but just thinking about it lessens the pain somewhat.

    Is this normal?

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Abhi09.
    June 13, 2015 at 8:00 am #78160
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Abhishek:
    Yes, it is normal to feel angry when you feel hurt. It is normal to want to hurt back the person who hurt you. It is normal to choose to not hurt another because you expect to feel guilty for doing so. Having all our feelings is a normal thing. Every feeling carries a message and all the valid messages are aimed to promote our SELF INTERESTS, one of which is SELF PROTECTION.

    Your main and foremost responsibility is to promote your self interest. It is in our genes as the animals that we are. It is our biology. It is not… normal (but very common) to sacrifice our self interest for another’s interests. The way to go is to participate in relationships and interactions with people on a WIN-WIN basis. Do what helps you and helps (or at least doesn’t hurt) another.

    What I notice in your sharing about the girl is that you project a lot of YOUR feelings into her: you imagine she feels this or that because YOU feel it. We all project. We imagine what the other person is feeling because we feel it. Sometimes the projection is accurate or close to being accurate and at other times it is off and sometimes it is very inaccurate. When you feel she is feeling this or that, you may be wrong. You don’t know what she is feeling, you only imagine that you do. In a relationship with someone you trust enough, you can ask: how are you feeling? What did you mean when you said that? This is how you get information, not relying solely on your projection of how you feel, or how you would feel if you were her…

    Also, you excuse her insensivity to you because of her upbringing, because she was hurt. Well, the thing is there would be nobody in prison if all were excused for their behavior … because who was not hurt? Do we excuse any and all behaviors, murders because the murderer had a difficult upbrining? Is a victim of a murder less dead because the murderer had a difficult upbringing?

    Are you less hurt by her because she had a tough upbringing?

    You take care of yourself- this is your job. It is not about figuring her out. It is about figuring yourself out, enough so that you learn to do what is right for YOU.

    You asked “why run away?” about her, why avoid things- because facing things is either uncomfortable or very scary. You too avoid things, you too run away, don’t you? Aren’t you running away from yourself by FOCUSING on her motives, her feelings, her upbringing instead of looking more (because more needs to be seen) into your motives, your feelings, your upbringing?
    anita

    June 13, 2015 at 11:20 am #78167
    Abhi09
    Participant

    Dear Anita Ma’am.

    Each and every message of yours just gives me a new angle to look at the situation from,

    Thank You.

    You raised a couple of good points. I would like to clarify my stand on those.

    The reason I write ‘ I feel that she is behaving like this might be because…’ is because whenever I have asked her reasons for her behavior and trust me I have many times, she has responded with things like ‘ I am not comfortable talking about feelings. Don’t complicate stuff’ or ‘ I requested you not to bring that topic up’ or changes the topic to small talk, etc. And this is why I used to send her messages as I felt uncomfortable and this irritated her. In her last message she told me that she used to ignore my messages because ‘ there is no point. We will get back to where we started’ . So if I am not getting any reply, what do I do?

    When I was very sad during Feb and March, I read hon Tiny buddha and other such blogs,etc. that the reason for others’ behavior could be something compeltely different from what it seems- like her behavior appeared weird and rude to me but there might be valid reasons which I don’t know.

    So I read about single child issues, about people feeling difficulty in opening up and found out possible reasons as, parental neglect or hurt, previous relationships etc. She also told me that she doesn’t feel like justifying her actions and doesn’t get attached which in her words is due to her upbringing, so I thought that okay, these are her reasons. THAT is why I write things like ‘ I feel’ etc. I had no choice as I didn’t want to believe that she is a bad friend for me.

    Also, she is one of the popular girls and talks to a LOT of people- seniors, juniors, batchmates, etc. and is friends with most of them, and a common opinion regarding her is that she is one of the most fun-loving person to be around.She goes with the wind and lives life to the fullest.Everyone seems to adore her.
    She is also an active part of an NGO which I volunteered for in my 2nd year in college and told me that she would love to open an NGO herself.

    These things made me believe that how can someone who is fun loving in common opinion and cares about others(the NGO point) would be untrustworthy or dishonest. I might be childish but I believed that such a person would have a child-like wondeful soul. And so I might be the one who is too rigid and too serious and since Friendships involve forgiveness, I should forgive her and stay in touch.

    Now, for your point about me ignoring myself and FOCUSING on her, you are right- that was the case for more than an year. I regret it now. I wanted to become a better coder and writer and have reached nowhere because I just couldn’t focus. Now, I want to focus on myself only and that is why I want to remove all distractions and this is probably the biggest of them.

    I am 99.99% sure that I should ignore her now. The advice I receievd here has strengthened my resolve to focus on myself first but like I said it is only now that I am beginning to believe that she is not right for me and that fun-loving thing and NGO etc. might not carry much weight as I haven’t really asked in detail to people about her. She might not really be that good of a person. One friend told me that her attitue is neutral.

    So, I am beginning to focus on myself.

    What do you think? Is it possible that people who seem like fun to be around and everyone’s favourites and have so many friends could also have such deal breaking qualities like dishonesty or inability to just introspect?

    June 13, 2015 at 2:09 pm #78174
    Adam P
    Participant

    People can fool you Abishek and you know what, you may NEVER EVER get a clear answer from her.

    Certainly people that feel the need to surround themselves around others put on “two faces”. The mask they wear out in public is used as a disguise so that they can suck or absorb other people’s energy and emotions to make themselves feel better about themselves. In most cases, these emotionally unavailable individuals would rather die than expose their flaws and insecurities to even just one person. Just as Anita mentioned, there are thousands of people walking around “hurt” and it’s not your job to heal them. Don’t worry, even after you stop talking to her and she may find someone else new that new person will experience the same results. Emotionally unavailable individuals live a vicious cycle where they repeat the same actions over and over and over again. It’s only up to them if they want to change. The important thing is that you yourself change. By all means continue to be the same caring and compassionate person, but stop giving out so many chances. 2nd chances I firmly believe in and have given them to people, but with your situation the chances are done. Consider this a great life lesson and in the future if you don’t receive a clear concise answer from the next woman and hear some of those common excuses, just don’t bother and turn your attention away.
    It’s nice to hear that you have been doing some research online about emotional unavailability and we don’t know what happens behind closed doors so it can be something deeper emotionally (BPD, Bipolar, etc.) One way to help your healing would be any kind of meditation/ and or prayer for these individuals. It certainly has helped me. Individuals that suffer from emotional pain can spend their whole lives figuring out who they are.

    Stay strong

    June 13, 2015 at 9:26 pm #78176
    Matt
    Participant

    Abhishek,

    If at first you don’t succeed, ask, ask again? Consider: you kept probing, and she said no thank you. Why she said no thank you is not really any of your business, and will continue to drain you if you keep seeking answers. This includes making up answers in your brain trying to make her fit into what you think she should do, what a normal being does, the need for introspection, and all those other crafty excuses your mind develops to keep probing.

    Said differently, you have been spending too much time on her side, and little time on your side. This causes you to be depressed, because who is giving tender attention to Abhishek? Not Abhishek! That big fat question mark of a mystery is one you resolve by walking away from the mystery.

    The vision I got is one of a boy that poked his finger into the center of a flower bud, frustrated that it wouldn’t bloom, so he kept poking and poking. No lessons there, friend. Move on.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    June 13, 2015 at 11:17 pm #78177
    Abhi09
    Participant

    Thank you Adam and Matt for your help. As far as the thing about ‘poking and poking’ is that I Liked her a lot and when she said no to me, it was difficult to stay friends. I just felt that if she is ignoring me and is unwilling to tell me the truth, is it worth to stay in touch? May be I should just break all contacts as if she isn’t being honest to me, then why should I even remain friends? So I wanted to confirm if she really had a genuine reason or if she was afraid of something etc. because if that was the case I could have forgiven the fact that she chose to avoid telling the truth to me, however difficult it was. I mean, I just wanted reassurance from her that “Yes, I made a mistake Abhishek by avoiding you. I should have told you that I was ignoring you to give you some time to move on. Sorry, But I am your friend”. Something like that.May be it was unreasonable for me to desire explanation from her. It’s just that I was so fragile after being rejected that I wanted reassurance from her that she cared.

    Also, I was afraid of moving on. I felt a certain void as I had already spent a lot of time and emotional energy on her. I was chasing misery and it was my ego which hoped that may be she could like me later or even if that does not happen, I will have a great friend for life.

    I was chasing misery. I realise now and it’s my fault. I am not asking her anything now, no explanations, nothing.

    I am moving on now.

    June 14, 2015 at 9:35 am #78187
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Abhishek:
    I read again your original post and my response to your original post. My response to your original post was so wrong. I am humbled. I jumped into wrong assumptions, that she was dishonest and manipulative with you and that you were sort of her victim. I am amazed now by my blindness at that point and how wrongly I perceived the issue. I hope I am more correct now:

    I see no evidence that she was dishonest or manipulative with you. I do see a problem with the mode of communication, Facebook messaging. That creates lots of problems and as a primary mode of communication is not a good idea. A Facebook friendship is not the same as face to face friendship. In the Facebook friendship she gets lots of messages from many people (being as popular as you say she is) and therefore is distracted. She is also busy with other things. On Facebook you can leave long, long messages and you can’t tell when she had enough. She can’t stop you before your message gets too long for her. And so on.

    You wrote: “I just wanted reassurance from her that ‘Yes, I made a mistake Abhishek by avoiding you. I should have told you that I was ignoring you to give you some time to move on. Sorry, But I am your friend’.” First if she did tell you she was ignoring you, she wouldn’t have been ignoring you.

    It was hard for me to read all your posts. It is very tiring. I can imagine others may have the same problem as well. In your writing you go on and on and on and it is distressing for me to follow. Your thinking is muddled or “all over the place.” It is not clear to me. What is it that you want from her? To admit guilt? To heal all her problems so that she can love you?

    I do not know. Obviously contact with her is causing you suffering and therefore I hope you remove yourself from contacting her, especially on Facebook. If you have any contact with her- or with a future love interest or female friend- do it IN PERSON.

    And then, I suggest psychotherapy so that your thinking gets clearer, that you become more aware of what you need and what you want and how to go about it.

    I regret my previous jumping-to-conclusions. I believe I am more on the mark now. It is about seeing and then SEEING MORE clearly. I am in that process. I hope you are too.
    anita

    June 14, 2015 at 11:23 am #78196
    Abhi09
    Participant

    I am Sorry for writing long posts.
    I don’t want her to admit guilt or something. May be I couldn’t express it properly. I will be concise now.

    The thing is I believe you guys think that I sent her messages as long as I am writing right now. Nope, it was about the size of a short paragraph having 5-6 lines. It’s just that I had never written messages like these on Facebook to anyone. That is why I am saying ‘long messages’ . Also I sent about 4-5 messages like these in a span of 4-5 months. The reason for sending 4-5 messages was that initially I asked her the reason for suddenly ignoring me which I could sense(and like I said it was true that she wanted to not talk for a while to give me some time to move on). She could have then told me the reason. I would have appreciated her honesty. But instead of that she replied ‘I don’t want to think about it’. Then I stopped messaging but once in a while she would message me saying hello and all. If she wanted to give me time to move on, I couldn’t understand why she stopped talking for about a month, then when I asked her the reason she just avoided it and then started messaging as if nothing happened.

    I wasn’t waiting for her to love me. No, it’s just that I wasn’t sure of continuing the friendship, as I liked her so it was difficult to stay in touch and also sensed some unwillingness to speak the truth on her part. But did not know if breaking all contacts without listening to her reasons was good or not.

    That is what I hold on for so long.

    I never thought that she was manipulating me just felt that her behavior is awkward.

    June 14, 2015 at 11:36 am #78197
    Abhi09
    Participant

    And as far as this message is concerned ‘Yes, I made a mistake Abhishek by avoiding you. I should have told you that I was ignoring you to give you some time to move on. Sorry, But I am your friend’.

    Even when I read it now, it looks wrong. What I wanted is for her to be honest and tell me this ‘ I don’t like you the way you do. If you don’t want to talk for some time, I understand.’ or something of that sort. She didn’t say anything, just disappeared. And at leas t when I asked, she could have told me honestly. Why tell the truth after 4-5 months? This is what I didn’t understand.

    And, I am talking about the same point again and again but it is just to clarify. I apologize for making it difficult for you guys to understand. And I am not oblivious to my faults. I know I could have behaved in a more mature way.

    June 14, 2015 at 12:33 pm #78198
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Deasr abhishek:
    I will repeat my last advice to you:
    1) If you think as someone as a friend beyond a Facebook acquantance, communicate in person. If you are going to communicate with the woman in question again, do it in person.
    2) Seek counseling/ therapy so to find insight into what you need and how to get what you really need.

    I am done with your blog here. Best wishes to you:
    anita

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