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Dating a Mama’s Boy.

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  • #370632
    Leanne
    Participant

    I have been in a relationship with my boyfriend for a year and six months. I met him about seven years ago and we had a short love affair when he visited my hometown. Since we lived in separate states it was short lived plus we have a six year age gap. (I was a free spirited 18 year old at the time and not ready to move away with him). After all these years he waited to be in my life again. He always tried keeping up to date with me but I dated a super toxic/jealous guy for 5 years and was never allowed to talk to him.  Anyways, the man I’m with now came to my hometown after all this time and swept me off my feet. I had been broken up with my ex for while. I was in nursing school but was lost. I’m always somewhat lost. I’ve had some tough times growing up, mamas an alcoholic and my dad was physically/verbally abusive. I got cancer at 21. I have serious codependency problems and fear of being alone especially after near death. I would cry about wanting to just run. He came down and made me feel extremely loved, nothing like I’ve experienced before. He’s still very gentle and kind to me and I truly love this man. Here’s the problem…. I decided to move up to his hometown and didn’t realize the extent of the situation with him and his mom. He lived with her because she had a terrible divorce with his father about 5 years ago and was majorly depressed. He was there for support. We all decided to move somewhere entirely different together, all live together. She had a new job opportunity and this was a fresh start for her. Well, as time passed, him and I had no space. I felt like I was in a relationship with three people. I was obligated to make sure she had plenty of attention, if we wanted to watch a movie it was all of us together. She began telling us we can’t go to certain restaurants without her because she wants to be there to experience it together. When it was my birthday we couldn’t go to an amusement park that she wanted to go to first. She shows signs of manipulation and guilt tactics towards him and he’s so kind and loves her so much he has no idea how toxic it is.  It’s the weirdest dynamic I’ve ever seen… Not only that they text 24/7 when they are away from each other. I love yous and miss you constantly, it kind of grosses me out. I feel it’s a little obsessive….When we leave her to visit my hometown or wherever she has texted him telling him she cried when he left. I had a lot of loss this year, my dad died and my grandma died. I inherited a house in my hometown. I decided to head back home about a week ago. What hurts me is that I don’t know if he will ever leave his mama because she makes him feel like she can’t live without him. He tells me we will have a place together one day soon we just gotta get her situated.. I don’t know what to do. My heart hurts because I love being with him, he’s like a safe haven but deep down I feel if I stay here in my hometown that’ll be it between us. A part of me feels like there’s no point and should just break it off entirely.

    #370657
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Leanne:

    You (25) shared that you were “always somewhat lost”, having grown up with an alcoholic mother and a physically and verbally abusive father. As a result, you’ve had “serious codependency problems and fear of being alone”.

    Seven years ago, at 18, you had a short love affair with a man, 24 at the time (let’s refer to him as M) who visited your hometown. M then went back to where he lived and tried to keep in touch with you long distance. At 21 you got cancer and at one point, you were near death. You dated a “super toxic/ jealous guy for 5 years and was never allowed to talk to (M)”.

    After your five year relationship ended, you were in nursing school and feeling lost. At that time, M returned to your home town and swept you off your feet. He made you feel “extremely loved, nothing like I’ve experienced before”. You moved up to M’s hometown and lived with him.. and with his mother.

    You became aware of “the weirdest dynamic I’ve ever seen” between M and his mother, “they text 24/7 when they are away from each other. I love yous and miss you constantly”, she insisted on going to restaurants with you and M, so “to experience it together”; she chose what amusement park to you to for your birthday; she manipulated her son with guilt tactics. When you and A left her to visit your hometown or elsewhere, she texted him, telling him that she cried when he left, making “him feel like she can’t live without him”.

    A week ago, you decided to go back alone to your hometown following your mother and grandmother dying and inheriting a house in the past year. You are considering ending the relationship with A (and his mother).

    You wrote: “(M) tells me we will have a place together one day soon, we just gotta get (his mother) situated”.

    My input: I don’t think that his mother is interested in getting situated in an apartment/ house away from her son. I think that for her, to be “situated” means to continue to be situated inside her son’s soul- inside his mind and heart, for as long as she lives (and beyond).

    You wrote that their “love yous and miss you constantly” grosses you out- no wonder, because their relationship is one of emotional incest. In his mother’s mind and heart,  her son is her romantic partner minus the sex (I hope).

    M is not responsible for the creation of this emotionally incestuous relationship, but he is deeply involved in it nonetheless. He will need to attend serious psychotherapy so to free himself from this unhealthy relationship with his mother, something that will be very difficult for him to do because of those guilt tactics you mentioned.

    I believe that unless he is willing and able to attend serious, quality psychotherapy aimed at freeing himself from his mother’s incestuous emotional tentacles, you should indeed end the relationship.

    You mentioned that you were in nursing school: did you graduate?

    anita

     

    #370678
    Leanne
    Participant

    I agree, I don’t think she is wanting that either. I have been pushing that she needs to move closer to other family and that I too wish too want to be close to my family. I’m from the Florida panhandle and her other son, aunt, sister are only a couple hours away. We all moved to South Fl which is 8 hrs away from my home. I’ve been very stern that I don’t want to be away from my family anymore especially after experiencing loss for the first time. I felt if she moved closer to other family, M and I can actually grow in our relationship and move on. I’ve also been very stern with him in moments of frustration by saying “I cannot all live together, and I need my space.”

    That makes me extremely uneasy to think emotional incest. I knew this wasn’t normal. He also texts her every morning before work to tell her he loves her and to have a good day. I feel they are more in a relationship than him and I…

    I do not know how to bring up their unhealthy relationship to him. I don’t want to hurt him and I also don’t want him to shrug me off as jealous. I’m afraid he will never see what’s going on and psychotherapy isn’t really an option for him. I believe you are right, and that leaving the relationship may be my only option which makes me deeply sad. 🙁 Maybe it’s time to be alone and face everything I’ve been running.

    Oh and no I didn’t graduate, I left with him and felt nursing wasn’t really meant for me. I do feel if he never came back in my life I would have still finished.  I have been thinking about going back to school now that I’m back home.

    Thank you so much Anita for taking the time and giving me insight!

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Leanne.
    #370681
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Leanne:

    You are very welcome. I will probably reply more at length to your recent post later, but for now, a couple of thoughts:

    1. Going back to nursing school is probably a good idea.

    2. From my life experience, including communicating with many hundreds of people in these forums, the chance that you will lead him to undo his emotionally incestuous relationship with his mother is miniscule, I would say- almost non existent. To undo it- he will have to be aware that it exists (that his relationship with his mother is indeed unhealthy/ emotionally incestuous), and then he will have to seek therapy and do all the work required over a long period of time while changing or terminating his relationship with his mother.

    Connecting 1 and 2- it makes way, way more sense for you to invest your time, money and energy in nursing school than in him. If you graduate from nursing school, you can get a high paying job and help thousands of people; if you invest in him- you will end up exhausted and frustrated, and with nothing to show for all your time and spent energy.

    anita

    #370697
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Leanne:

    I will post you twice this morning, first post will be about him, and the following post- about you.

    First post is about “a Mama’s Boy” and his Mama: you were 18, he was 24. “I met him about seven years ago and we had a short love affair when he visited my hometown”, and then he went back to his mother, with whom he’s had a 24 year love affair by that point.

    Five and a half years later, he returned to your hometown and swept you off your feet. “He came down and made me feel extremely loved, nothing like I’ve experienced before. He’s still very gentle and kind to me”- he had 24 years of experience making his mother feel as loved as she could possibly feel: she trained him to be very gentle and kind.

    Two years after his short affair with you, at about 26, he moved in with her so to support her because she was “majorly depressed” following her divorce. They lived together, just him and her, for about 4 years before you joined them to a new location where she started a new job, “a fresh start for her”, and the three of you lived together for about a year.

    While living together, you “were obligated to make sure she had plenty of attention”- he was trained to make sure that she got plenty of attention from him, and he delegated some of that responsibility to you.

    “If we wanted to watch a movie it was all of us together. She began telling us we can’t go to certain restaurants without her because she wants to be there to experience it together”- she was experiencing a romantic/ intimate relationship with her son by proxy, meaning through a substitute, the substitute being you.

    “She shows signs of manipulation and guilt tactics towards him and he’s so kind and loves her so much he has no idea”- it may be difficult to manipulate and guilt-trip a grown man who is not so inclined, but there is no easier job than that of a mother manipulating and guilt-tripping her young child. A manipulated young child grows up to be a manipulated man with..  no idea.

    “It’s the weirdest dynamic I’ve ever seen.. Not only that they text 24/7 when they are away from each other. I love you-s, and miss you, constantly, it  kind of grosses me out”-

    Emotional incest is indeed a weird dynamic and it is gross. Wikipedia has an entry on Covert Incest. It reads: “Covert incest, also known as emotional incest, is a type of abuse in which a parent looks to their child for emotional support that would be normally provided by another adult. The effects of covert incest on children when they become adults are thought to mimic actual incest, although to a lesser degree…Covert incest was defined in the 1980s as an emotionally abusive relationship between a parental figure and child that does not  involve incest or sexual intercourse, though it involves similar interpersonal dynamics as a relationship between sexual partners…

    “Covert incest is described as occurring when a parent is unable or unwilling to maintain a relationship with another adult and forces the emotional role of a spouse onto their child instead. The child’s needs are ignored and instead the relationship exists solely to meet the needs of the parent”.

    Dr. Kenneth Adams wrote two books on covert incest (books you might want to suggest to your boyfriend or ex-boyfriend): Silently Seduced: When Parents Make Their Children Partners, and When He’s Married to Mom: How to Help Mother-Enmeshed Men Open Their Hearts to True Love and Commitment.

    In Psychology Today. com, you can read an interview that a Robert Weiss, Ph.D., had with the author of these two books. Here is some of the interview: Weiss: “In the simplest terms, what is covert incest?”

    Adams: “Covert incest describes a relationship between a parent and child in which the child feels more like a romantic partner. Typically the parent is motivated by the loneliness and emptiness of a troubled marriage, so he or she turns the child into a surrogate partner.. The boundaries are such that there is an incestuous feeling. The child feels used and trapped”.

    Weiss: “In Silently Seduced, you use the word ‘icky’ to describe how covert incest feels…” Adams: “Yes, it just feels like it’s too close… it feels icky. Later on, covert incest victims tend to continue functioning in the role of a surrogate partner where they’re overly enmeshed with the parent.. even though they may have long forgotten the icky part that was present early on.. Basically, enmeshment describes the nature of the ongoing relationship; covert incest defines the earlier sexual inappropriateness… Basically, what I see with men, and women too, as a result of covert incest is that they never quite feel free to be who they are.. their relationships elsewhere are affected”.

    – there is plenty you can find in the website: overcoming enmeshment. com/ dr- kenneth- m- adams (no spaces) including a list of zoom workshops.

    In your second post you wrote: “That makes me extremely uneasy to think emotional incest. I knew this wasn’t normal. He also texts her every morning before work to tell her he loves her and to have a good day. I feel they are more in a relationship than him and I”- yes, they are more in a relationship, a very long term one, and a sick one.

    “psychotherapy isn’t really an option for him”- maybe the zoom workshops in that website are an option for him (in-person workshops were cancelled because of Covid). Reading the books I mentioned or blogs in that website may be a beginning for him. But I don’t know if he will be willing to consider any of these things, and he may feel that because not everything in the books and blogs fit his experience exactly- then none of it applies to him.

    anita

     

    #370703
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Leanne:

    Second post is about you being lost: “I dated a super toxic/ jealous guy for 5 years… I was in nursing school but was lost. I’m always somewhat lost.. mama’s an alcoholic and my dad was physically/ verbally abusive. I got cancer at 21. I have serious codependency problems and fear of being alone especially after near death. I would cry about wanting to just run. He came down and made me feel extremely loved, nothing like I’ve ever experienced before”-

    – my understanding (and please correct it where it needs correcting): when a person grows up with too much fear and too little love (ex., an alcoholic mother and an abusive father), the person will take anything she can get when it comes to what feels like love and safety.

    There was a little love in that five years “super toxic” relationship, but you took it and endured the toxicity because, in comparison, it was.. better than what you had before as a child.

    Everything in comparison to a scary, loveless childhood feels especially loving and safe (he “made me feel extremely loved.. he is like a safe haven“).. for a while.

    When a child is alone, lonely and scared for too long, a craving is born, a desperate need to never be alone again, and the company of almost anyone.. feels better than being alone.

    In that desperation and lack of safety/ being lost- you probably didn’t see that who you refer to as “Mama’s Boy” is quite unwell.

    You wrote: “I don’t want to be away from my family anymore”- make sure that the family members you are living with, or close to, are not keeping you scared and lost, like family has done to you before.

    I think that nursing school, or some other practical education for a future career is worth your investment, and I  know from personal experience that it is possible, after all, to find true love even after a miserable childhood.

    anita

     

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